Questions regarding China

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Maksymetz
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Questions regarding China

Post by Maksymetz » 15 Mar 2007 08:47

Hey everyone this is Maksymetz from Canada (yes, we have internet and igloos up here!)

I have a few questions regarding China


1) How sucessful was the Chinese-German bond to the extent of Chinese industrialization? Was it significant? If so, was it enough to meet the war demands as requested by the Chinese Nationalist Government? What was of the fate of these military armament factories? Where they moved? Did the Japanese capture them?


2) Did the Communist Chinese cause the Marco Polo incident? Or is that incorrect or a myth?

3) To what extent did Chiang Kai-Shek, and his son Wei-Kuo, have in terms of military experience. I understand that Kai-Shek had military training under the Japanese; likewise, Wei-Kuo was serving in a Panzer Brigade in Germany during the Aunschulus. Was Chiang Kai-Shek an officer in the Japanese army? Did this ever bring up any controversy or otherwise during Kai-Shek's succession to head of the KMT? Or even earlier when he worked with Dr. Sun?

4) After the German recongization of Mengchukuo and the removal of German advisors, including Flakenhausen, what was the fate of Kai-Shek's son? Did the Germans deport him? Did Wei-Kuo continue on and fight in Poland?

5) My professor was saying that Mao, as regarded by his buddies, appeared more KMT/nationalist than Communist. Is this true? Was Mao really a Communist? Or was he just a popular Nationalist? I ask this, because I understand that China (even as early as 1937), never had a good relationship with the USSR to begin with

6) Urban legend? Did Stalin really send a telegram pleaing Mao to not kill Chiang Kai-Shek? Additionally, during 1949, did Stalin send Mao a telegram saying something along the lines.... "North Communist China, Capitalist South" ?

7) Does anyone have information on a "T.H. Yeh"? I am not sure what his name is, but I believe he was a democratic Chinese statesment... Any help would be appreciated

8) Did the Roosevelt family have an extensive part in the Chinese-American trade? I heard that is one of the reasons why Roosevelt so firmly stuck with the Chiense... as his family made their fortuntes off Chinese silk and vases?

9) Regarding Li Zongren and Sun Liren, where did these two individuals recieve their military? Are they to be regarded as Chinese military geniuses of the 21st century? Or were they "overhyped" in a sense?

10) What if question... Had von Falkenhausen rebelled against German orders to return home and stayed with Chiang Kai-Shek to fight the Japanese... I understand he held a good relationship with Chiang-Kai Shek, resulting in Chiang backing Falkenhausen at the Nuremburg trials and even giving Falkenhausen a cheque of 1 million American on his 70th birthday
---- Anyway... what I am asking... Could Falkenhausen have convinced Chiang to fight a more agressive war with Japan? Or would have Chiang's zealousness, as seen with his not so good relationship with Stilwell, prevail?



Hope to recieve some answers!
Thanks!
Maksymetz

Jerry Asher
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Post by Jerry Asher » 16 Mar 2007 02:02

I'll take a start on what could be a very intresting thread. I think I am in the minority, but, I think Jiang ran a very intelligent war overall. I don't want to at this time get into a discussion of the overall quality of government of the KMT. As a war matter though, while the most serious unhappiness I have is with the decision not to retire from Shanghai sometime from late October 31st, 1937 to when the order was given on November 9th 1937. As I understand it, two fortified lines (probably without artillery however), pillboxes I guess mainly, existed west of Shanghai. I assume one or both made use of Tai Hu lake, then north to the Yangzi. Such lines therefore barred the major roads and railroads.

If the Chinese troops had withdrawn and redeployed, then the two Japanese Armies would have confronted force that might have caused them to rethink, thier earlier Oct decision to expand beyond a "Second Shanghai Incident" and drive on Nanjing.

Politically holding at Shanghai however clearly won the hearts and minds of the population.
Once the Japanese breakuot began, twenty million Chinese from the area followed Jiang. I repeat---twenty million people voted with their feet, if not for Jiang, then with the hope that Chinese forces could stem the "Eastern Devils."

Another thought--- really off the wall---I don't think Jiang for a minute wasn't Chinese. He may admire German this or that, or Russian, or American--but it was all put through a sieve of Chinese thought. I'm not from Missouri, ( An American expression) but I think the dominint idea was always what could he get from following what advice. Even the German trainned divsions don't look like German divisions--the lack of artillery is stunning.

Gerrie_Coetzee
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Post by Gerrie_Coetzee » 16 Mar 2007 15:53

1) How sucessful was the Chinese-German bond to the extent of Chinese industrialization? Was it significant? If so, was it enough to meet the war demands as requested by the Chinese Nationalist Government? What was of the fate of these military armament factories? Where they moved? Did the Japanese capture them?
From what I researched the Sino-German cooperation was quite strong, Chaing had a number of German advisors to help him train his armies and he had around 8 divisions of German-equipped troops; around 88,000 men by 1937.Though Chiang lost many of these men in the Battle of Shanghai as he pitted all his divisions in the battle which took years to train further diminishing Chinese resistance later on.

Though Sino-German cooperation of the Chinese armies wasnt really enough as the Chinese army still had hardly any artillery or heavy weapons. I read somewhere that the Chinese army had only 50 artillery pieces in total and many were just motars. Ill try and back up this statement.

2) Did the Communist Chinese cause the Marco Polo incident? Or is that incorrect or a myth?
From what I read and according to the Japanese version of the incident a soldier went missing and therefore demanded the Chinese garrison to allow them to enter to find the missing man. The Chinese garrison refused and opened fire. According to the Chinese version the Japanese opened fire first. But it mattered little because the Japanese army had now found their incident and had exploited it to the full.

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Windward
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Post by Windward » 19 Mar 2007 07:52

From what I read and according to the Japanese version of the incident a soldier went missing and therefore demanded the Chinese garrison to allow them to enter to find the missing man. The Chinese garrison refused and opened fire. According to the Chinese version the Japanese opened fire first. But it mattered little because the Japanese army had now found their incident and had exploited it to the full
there's a Japanese manoeuvre on the night of July 7th. When the manoeuvre near its end, there were several rifle shots from the other side of Yongding River. Then Japanese officer Shimidzu ordered stop the manoeuvre and count soldiers. They found one soldier "went missing" then ask Chinese troop to enter Wanping city to search for that soldier. But later that night the missing soldier was found, and commander of Chinese 37th Division (Wanping garrison) Feng Zhi'an said that there were no Chinese troops outside the city at night, if there were rifle shots, it must from bandits. Japanese commander Mutaguchi ordered his troops keep alert and fire back if there were more shots. On 4:00 am, more rifle shots were heard by both Japanese and Chinese troops.

According to some historians, these shots were from Japanese ronins who hired by Kwantung Army, or agents of Chinese communists, both sides were suspectable because they all hope a general Sino-Japanese war break out.

For the communist side, it would lighten Japanese military pressure and threat on USSR (soviets invaded China in 1929, these Chinese commies call Chinese people rise up and fight against their own country to "defend Soviet Union").

White Star
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Post by White Star » 04 Apr 2007 16:27

I think most of your questions could be answered by Wikipiedia.
For the communist side, it would lighten Japanese military pressure and threat on USSR (soviets invaded China in 1929, these Chinese commies call Chinese people rise up and fight against their own country to "defend Soviet Union").
Could you find the original quotation??

4) After the German recongization of Mengchukuo and the removal of German advisors, including Flakenhausen, what was the fate of Kai-Shek's son? Did the Germans deport him? Did Wei-Kuo continue on and fight in Poland?
I find a quote from Wiki for you:
He studied at several universities, including Soochow University and National Chiao Tung University, but did not complete his education at either school. Chiang Kai-shek had sent his eldest son, Chiang Ching-kuo to the Soviet Union to study, but it became impossible for him to send Wei-kuo there after the KMT violently ended its alliance with the Chinese Communists in the Shanghai Massacre. Consequently, he sent Wei-kuo to Nazi Germany for military training instead. During his time in Germany, he participated in the Spanish Civil War as a tank commander in the German Condor Legion after completing his training, and then served as a Lieutenant commanding a panzer tank during the 1938 Anschluss with Austria, and finally, the invasion of Poland. Afterwards, he returned to China and quickly rose through the ranks through his father's connections. He became a major at 28, a lieutenant colonel at 29, a colonel at 32, and major general at 34.

6) Urban legend? Did Stalin really send a telegram pleaing Mao to not kill Chiang Kai-Shek? Additionally, during 1949, did Stalin send Mao a telegram saying something along the lines.... "North Communist China, Capitalist South" ?
This is true.

White Star
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Post by White Star » 04 Apr 2007 16:28

I think most of your questions could be answered by Wikipiedia.
For the communist side, it would lighten Japanese military pressure and threat on USSR (soviets invaded China in 1929, these Chinese commies call Chinese people rise up and fight against their own country to "defend Soviet Union").
Could you find the original quotation??

4) After the German recongization of Mengchukuo and the removal of German advisors, including Flakenhausen, what was the fate of Kai-Shek's son? Did the Germans deport him? Did Wei-Kuo continue on and fight in Poland?
I find a quote from Wiki for you:
He studied at several universities, including Soochow University and National Chiao Tung University, but did not complete his education at either school. Chiang Kai-shek had sent his eldest son, Chiang Ching-kuo to the Soviet Union to study, but it became impossible for him to send Wei-kuo there after the KMT violently ended its alliance with the Chinese Communists in the Shanghai Massacre. Consequently, he sent Wei-kuo to Nazi Germany for military training instead. During his time in Germany, he participated in the Spanish Civil War as a tank commander in the German Condor Legion after completing his training, and then served as a Lieutenant commanding a panzer tank during the 1938 Anschluss with Austria, and finally, the invasion of Poland. Afterwards, he returned to China and quickly rose through the ranks through his father's connections. He became a major at 28, a lieutenant colonel at 29, a colonel at 32, and major general at 34.

6) Urban legend? Did Stalin really send a telegram pleaing Mao to not kill Chiang Kai-Shek? Additionally, during 1949, did Stalin send Mao a telegram saying something along the lines.... "North Communist China, Capitalist South" ?
This is true.

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iceagle
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Post by iceagle » 04 Jun 2007 02:34

there is a photo of Chiang Wei-Kuo in German uniform

Image[/img]

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iceagle
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Post by iceagle » 04 Jun 2007 02:47

When von Falkenhausen was in Belguim,he saved many people in the ask of a Chinese woman.That woman's cousin was a KMT officer when von Falkenhausen was a military advisor in China.And they were friends.A TV series once was shot to show story of the woman in Belguim. Falkenhausen was sentenced to 12 years at the Nuremburg trials .
Falkenhausen's story is often posted in Chinese forums.

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