Structure of Chinese Naval Forces 1937-1945

[Jerry Asher]

Good evening everyone:

It seems to me that recent Chinese schlorship has established that the basic data by Hsu that we have relied on in English for the past two decades plus had ommitted many historical events and data.
1. There were almost forty more ships than the 59 stipulated in Hsu
2. The line between merchant ship and naval is nonexistance when merchant ships are not carriers but passive defense structures.
3. There were at least eight formations of which only five were under direct control of Central Government--and as our contributors have indicated the tensions even within some of the same formations are difficult to grasp for all of us used to unified systems.

Lastly, I'm suggesting that it maybe time to seperate Sino-Japanese War from Pacific War in general.

If we look back at Edward Hsioh post on the Chinese Nationalist Navy; how far we have come is clear.

[sjchan]

1. There were almost forty more ships than the 59 stipulated in Hsu

Based on 海軍抗日戰史 (Military History of the Navy in the Sino Japanese War), published by the Taiwan Naval HQ in 1994, there are actually 130 vessels (pp. 561-572, vol. 1) in the Nationalist navy in 1937. These two volumes, more than 1000 pages each, contained lots of primary sources on the Chinese side, many of which are unfortunately so poorly reproduced that they are almost illegible. They also contain extensive excerpts from Senshi Sosho, unfortunately there is no attempt to reconcile the two sources.

[nuyt]

Dear sjchan,

Do you know if this book on the Chinese Navy has a chapter on naval guns/armaments?

Kind regards,
nuyt

[sjchan]

There are a couple of tables on the main armaments of the ships in the various fleets pp. 162-168; unfortunately it was only for ships built by 1931 in the central fleet and the Northeastern fleet. No separate chapter, though.

[nuyt]

Thanks, will send you a p;m

Nuyt

[sjchan]

1. There were almost forty more ships than the 59 stipulated in Hsu

Based on 海軍抗日戰史 (Military History of the Navy in the Sino Japanese War), published by the Taiwan Naval HQ in 1994, there are actually 130 vessels (pp. 561-572, vol. 1) in the Nationalist navy in 1937.

The main difference between this list and the list in Tu shuo Zhongguo hai jun shi : gu dai-1955 by Chen Zhenshou, 2002. "Pictoral History of the Chinese Navy : Ancient times to 1955" Vol. 3 is that many of the small (and old) river gunboats of the Cantonese fleet are included in the longer list:

海繼
江鞏
廣金
廣澄
安北
舞鳳
湖山
光華
智利
金馬
飛鵬
江澄
江平
平西
靖東
廣安
廣源
利琛
淫江
海鷗
球江
西興
仲凱
新松江

The longer list also includes a number of minor vessels not explicitly named in Chen’s list of vessels in the 電雷學校 (item 8 in Chen’s list):

鈞和 (gunboat)
策電 (gunboat)
伯先 (gunboat)
俞大猷 (gunboat)
海靜 (minelayer)
零一 (minelayer)
鎮海 (minelayer)
文 42, 文 88, 文 93, 文171 (torpedo boats)
史 34, 史 102, 史 181, 史 223 (torpedo boats)
岳 22, 岳 253. 岳 371 (torpedo boats)

The following four torpedo boats were added to the Chinese navy after hostilities started.
顏53, 顏92, 顏161, 顏164

[rjl3]

Jerry, sjchan, and nuyt,
would it be possible for someone to post or email me a copy of the lists of the ships of the Nationalist navy in 1937? I have been researching the ships of the Chinese Navy in the period 1937 - 1945 and having a difficult time of it!
thanks,
Ralph

[sjchan]

Jerry, sjchan, and nuyt,
would it be possible for someone to post or email me a copy of the lists of the ships of the Nationalist navy in 1937? I have been researching the ships of the Chinese Navy in the period 1937 - 1945 and having a difficult time of it!
thanks,
Ralph

There are different versions of the list of naval vessels, depending on whether one includes some of the minor vessels. A number of references have been posted in previous posts. Are there specific information / issues you are interested in?

[rjl3]

SJ
thank you for your reply. I am using the Chinese Warships Museum site and Wright's "The Chinese Steam Navy" to try to build a data-base of all ships of the Chinese Navy particularly those during the Sino-Japanese War. I am particularly interested in the smaller more-unkown ships and auxiliaries. It was a bit simplistic I know to ask for a list which must be very lengthy! One of my difficulies is in trying to match english-readings (which of course vary) with Chinese characters. The other is in trying to resolve conflicting historical data. For example right now I am looking into the Northern Fleet's Chen Hai, Wei Hai, and Ching (Ting) Hai. The data between my 2 sources as well as with Lloyd's is entirely conflicting! Perhaps if I just posted occasional specific questions you or someone else might have an answer.
Regards,
Ralph