MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by YC Chen » 13 Jul 2010 14:51

That is Wikipredia, but what about THIS: KMT offical document photos
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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by YC Chen » 13 Jul 2010 14:51

Another one:
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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by YC Chen » 13 Jul 2010 14:53

There are two(? at least two) MG 34s on display in the military museum in Beijing, this is one of them (the other one is on an AA mount):
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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by HC8604 » 13 Jul 2010 17:09

On the official KMT photos, they could be photos given by the Germans as a sample of what the weapons can do.

But, the actual proof would be in battlefield pictures of soldiers using the MG34. I know there are a lot of photos out there, but even on the AHF in the picture threads about China, so far nothing yet.

The vehicles were equipped with the MG13 and it was probably misattributed to the MG34 since the barrels look very similar and at that time most (if not all??) German vehicles were equipped with the MG34. As Dave mentioned, it probably spread from a careless mistake and assumption.

I can't explaing the museum and their MG34s. Display pieces bought to support the idea? I think there were other reasons mentioned in this thread.

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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by HC8604 » 13 Jul 2010 17:17

From the chinesefirearms website: http://www.chinesefirearms.com/110108/articles/gc_g.htm
这些部队没有使用MG 34的记录(南京参战的PzKpfw I装有两挺并列的M13), 中国也没有生产MG 34的记录, 老实说, 即使想仿造, MG 34繁复的加工程序, 也会令人退避三舍。

Or in English, that there are no records of the MG 34 serving in China, even if the Chinese wanted to copy the MG 34, the Chinese are turned away because of the sophisicated manufacturing techniques needed to build it in China. In the parenthesis, it is stated that in the Nanjing battle, the PZ I tanks used MG13 machineguns.

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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by HC8604 » 22 Jul 2010 05:39

Also, I forgot about SASH155's research; he mentions the MG 13 but no mention of the MG 34.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=162447

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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by Peter H » 22 Jul 2010 11:18

From the US Library of Congress.

Members of the Chinese Military Mission to North Africa with captured German weaponary 1943.

Perhaps some of these trophies were passed onto the Chinese?
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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by YC Chen » 08 Nov 2010 10:33

I have just found this in a Chinese book: PLA operating a MG 34 in Shanghai, 1949!
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PLA operating a MG 34 in Shanghai, 1949!

Post by Dave Bender » 08 Nov 2010 15:22

The Red Army acquired 10s of thousands of MG 34s when Germany surrendered and Soviet occupied Czechoslovakia continued to produce MG 34s for several years after 1945 (Israel purchased some). So I would not automatically assume that a MG 34 being used by the PLA during 1949 was produced in China. It could have been provided by the Soviet Union after the Japanese surrender.

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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by YC Chen » 09 Nov 2010 14:19

Well, maybe you guys don't really understand my opinion. My opinion is: China didn't produce any MG 34, but some were used by Chinese army before 1949.
Although some Chinese sources state that PLA asked Soviet Union for some captured German weapons in 1946, but I don't think PLA got any during the Civil War. There are some late-WWII German weapons in Chinese museums, and I believe the saying that they were purchased from Soviet in 1950s for training purpose.
Maybe these MG34s showing in document photos and being used by PLA are from Europe or North Africa(KMT bought some weapons from Europe after WWII, like the M-10 tank destroyers, etc), I don't know.

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for training purpose

Post by Dave Bender » 09 Nov 2010 16:34

I find that difficult to believe since the MG34 was one of the best machineguns in the world right up into the 1960s. If the PLA acquired MG34s in quantity they would almost certainly be used in places like Korea.

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Re: for training purpose

Post by YC Chen » 10 Nov 2010 11:08

Dave Bender wrote:I find that difficult to believe since the MG 34 was one of the best machineguns in the world right up into the 1960s. If the PLA acquired MG 34s in quantity they would almost certainly be used in places like Korea.
I don't mean MG 34s, I mean some earlier weapons, like PAK 38 5cm AT guns, 7.5cm infantry guns, etc. which can be found in some Chinese museums. I think PLA didn't have these until 1950s. However, I believe PLA captured a number of MG34s from KMT and then put them back into service, as showed by the Shanghai 1949 photo.
I don't know if PLA used any MG 34s in Korea-maybe there were some.

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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by HC8604 » 12 Nov 2010 02:29

I still don't think the KMT had the MG 34 to begin with.

I am skeptical on the date of the picture from the book. But as Dave said, there would have been reports of them being used in Korea or maybe they did not want to use it because it was a prized weapon??

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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by Candybag » 01 Mar 2017 15:18

Russia asked communist China if they need some 79 cal. anti-air-MG, August 1949.
China asked for 360 units, with ammo.
At least 310 units received by the communist force, which was going to Korea.
The others, 50 units, maybe keep in China mainland. Maybe the one in that photo Shanghai 1949.

The 79 cal. anti-air-MG very likely the MG34 or MG42.
Other report shows that the ammo produced by KMT not fit for the MG34.

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Re: MG 42 and StG 44 in China?

Post by YC Chen » 06 Mar 2017 09:01

Candybag wrote:Russia asked communist China if they need some 79 cal. anti-air-MG, August 1949.
China asked for 360 units, with ammo.
At least 310 units received by the communist force, which was going to Korea.
The others, 50 units, maybe keep in China mainland. Maybe the one in that photo Shanghai 1949.

The 79 cal. anti-air-MG very likely the MG34 or MG42.
Other report shows that the ammo produced by KMT not fit for the MG34.
Interesting account. Could you provide the source please?

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