Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Discussions on all aspects of China, from the beginning of the First Sino-Japanese War till the end of the Chinese Civil War. Hosted by YC Chen.
twraia
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by twraia » 28 May 2009 01:48

Thank you Peter H

great help :D



by the way, I got to talk to my professor today, and he pointed out a simple fact that made me feel so stupid
"picture of opium war? camera wasn't even invented back then" LOL

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Peter H
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by Peter H » 09 Jun 2009 10:56

Gingal seized in Manchuria 1931.Must be a museum piece.
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Peter H
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by Peter H » 06 Jul 2009 09:25

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James A Pratt III
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by James A Pratt III » 09 Jul 2009 21:56

The photo of Japanese with captured Gingals also contains a number of M-1888 Mausers which the Chinese army did use at this time

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Sewer King
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by Sewer King » 11 Jul 2009 01:22

Peter H wrote:Gatling gun,date unknown
This is a French Mitrailleuse, a multi-barrel piece of the kind that was not successful in the Franco-Prussian War. A cartridge clip for it (37 rounds in a hexagonal loading?) lies next to the trail here, in an arsenal setting to judge from the shot pyramid.

It does have a superficial resemblance to the Gatling, which by comparison had some success in their limited French use in 1871. Does anyone know what use the mitrailleuse had in China, if any?

Another illustration of the gun in Chinese hands -- in fact the same one in the photo but in reverse, adapted with a third man?
Image

-- Alan

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Peter H
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by Peter H » 11 Jul 2009 10:52

Thanks Alan,that exactly matches the photo in Woodward's book.I cropped out the third guy because the photo extended across two pages.

Peter

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YC Chen
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by YC Chen » 26 Jan 2011 11:05

Nice surviving pistol, I think after 1860:
http://bbs.sssc.cn/viewthread.php?tid=1164681

The picture is a wall gun.
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by YC Chen » 26 Jan 2011 11:09

A wall gun, unearthed somewhere in Guangxi. It's 2.23 meters long and weigh 15kg, the inscription on it says it was made in 1921 by a local workshop.
There are many surviving wall guns in China now. However, It's interesting to know that some people made them even in 20th century.
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by YC Chen » 26 Jan 2011 11:15

Peter H wrote:Gingal seized in Manchuria 1931.Must be a museum piece.
So it seems that maybe the gun in this photo wasn't a museum piece...

HFK
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by HFK » 26 Jan 2011 19:46

twraia wrote:Thank you Peter H

great help :D



by the way, I got to talk to my professor today, and he pointed out a simple fact that made me feel so stupid
"picture of opium war? camera wasn't even invented back then" LOL
Hello twraia, Your professor is very wrong about the cameras around 1860. Cameras were in use from around 1840-1845. And just consider the many photos from the American Civil War which occurred shortly after the Opium Wars. Granted, the photo system and cameras differed, the cameras being much larger and slower, but photos definitely did exist at that time. Regards, Harry

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Mike Blake
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by Mike Blake » 09 Feb 2011 12:06

The Chinese made extensive use of jingals (jingalls, gingals, gingalls, jangal, aka a taiqiang), large calibre shoulder arms rather like Western wall- or boat-guns. Varying greatly in detail, they were long tapering guns, large calibre (¼”, 7/8” and 1” being mentioned specifically), barrels, 6’-14’ overall. Beresford gives weight of 40-60 lbs. Whilst there are claims that some were still matchlock and flintlock, most were percussion (often converted from the earlier mechanisms) and even bolt-action cartridge models. All ignition systems came in both muzzle- and breech-loading versions. The latter are described as still often being loaded from the muzzle, but this may be typical western denigration, especially given the difficulties loading a weapon that long that way.

One account decribes the loader having to uses a stool in order to do so – hardly readily available on the battlefield. Whilst acknowledged as being accurate and lethal, at close range, they were very inaccurate beyond it.

Cavendish described seeing Yung Soldiers near Peking using a large Mauser rifle about 9’ long, 1” cal, made in the Nanking arsenal. Though reputed to carry 2,500 yards it was sighted for just 600.

In the field, jingals had 2 or 3 man crews, and were fired using a single rest like an ECW musketeers’; a bipod; tripod; or with the barrel resting on a second, and even third, man’s shoulders.

They were also known to have been mounted in rickshaws as very simple mobile light artillery. Some captured by Americans described by Daggett were “… improvised field pieces, each consisting of a ‘jingal’ barrel thrust through the back of a ricksa, [sic] giving it the appearance at a distance of a rapid fire gun with its shield.”

Jingals mounted on the sturdy Chinese ‘wheelbarrows’ used for transporting goods on the deeply rutted roads were also captured.

They were also mounted as swivel guns on a single support in forts and other defensive works, and in naval warfare in the bulwarks of boats.

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YC Chen
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by YC Chen » 09 Feb 2011 14:08

Very interesting materials, thanks a lot Mike! I didn't know there are so many ways to mount a jingal...
"Nanking arsenal", must be the "Jinling Machinery Institution"(金陵机器局), now it has been converted to an art center.

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Mike Blake
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by Mike Blake » 09 Feb 2011 15:30

My pleasure. They are rather fascinating things and if anyone has any material on them I would be delighted to hear about it.

Hope the art centre hasn't meant there is no memory of the places important military role?

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Mike Blake
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by Mike Blake » 07 Mar 2011 09:39

YC

Tried to reply to you PM but the system wont let me ('You are sensd a reply to too many recipients' but it is only to you!?) so here is my response:
Hi YC

The material is aimed at the Boxer Uprising, in that that is my period of special interest (having just written a book on the armies involved), but it is drawn from a wider (earlier) timeframe.

I can send you details of sources, and some illustrations and photos but I am afraid I do not have anything on the early period you are interested in.

Best regards

Mike

email me direct at mike(dot)blakeuk(at)btinternet(dot)com

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YC Chen
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Re: Chinese weapons since Opium War to the Era of Warlords?

Post by YC Chen » 08 Mar 2011 07:55

Hello,
Thank you very much for your reply. Will contact you by e-mail later.
Best regards,
YC Chen
P.S. Here's a short introduction of Chinese jingals: http://www.chinesefirearms.com/110108/h ... misc_g.htm

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