Questions on Chinese FT-17s

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Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby YC Chen » 07 Nov 2009 08:54

After reading a number of articles on FT-17s in China, I have some problems on the history of Chinese FT-17s:
1 What is the exact number of FT-17s given to Zhang Zuolin by White Russians? Were they in running condition or as an article said, used only to provide spare parts for the FT-17s bought from France?
2 Did FT-17s take part in the fight in Nanking in December 1937? I remember seeing a photo shows a FT-17 with KMT markings captured by Japanese.
3 Does anyone have some materials or photos about the four armored cars built in Shenyang arsenal which were sent to Nanking along with the two FT-17s? As I have found a photo shows the FT-17s in Nanking, I believe there must be some photos of these armored cars, too.
4 Is it true that some Chinese FT-17s have Type14 3.7cm infantry gun(also built in Shenyang arsenal) as their armament? Any details or photos?

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby Stamford54 » 05 Jan 2010 04:29

Hi Westsand,

I don't have the answers to any of your FT-17 questions, but your comment on question #2 about you seeing a photo of a FT-17 with KMT markings caught my attention.

All articles that I have seen were about FT-17 having geometric markings in the late 1920's and early 1930's but no mention of what markings that any existing FT-17's during the second Sino-Japanese conflict. Do you remember where you saw the photo and what the markings look like and where they were located.

Thanks.

Mickey Eng

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby HC8604 » 06 Jan 2010 06:28

From an online auction site, seller does not list a date nor location:

Image

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby YC Chen » 20 Jan 2010 12:51

Yes, I do have two photos show FT-17s with KMT markings. It seems that one of them shows a Chinese FT captured by Japanese but I am not sure. The other one is here:
http://hiphotos.baidu.com/kkkfj1/pic/it ... 543093.jpg
It shows a FT-17 was visited by KMT officers, probably in 1933.
It is said that the two FTs stayed in Nanking as training vehicles during 1930s, and after 1937, their fate was unkown.
Sorry, HC8604, I can't see your photo on my computer. Could you please upload it somewhere else?

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby Stamford54 » 21 Jan 2010 02:49

HC8604 and WestSand, thanks for the pictures showing the KMT markings on the FT17.

I don't know if anybody else had any problems with the website that was posted for the picture but I was able to get around it by playing around with google to access it.

WestSand the picture at the site shows the KMT Sunburst on a square field (assuming that it appears on both sides of the tank) that appears darker than the tank's finish, do you know what color it is ?

WestSand if the year, 1933, that the picture was taken is correct would that mean that all FT17's under the KMT would have the Sunburst markings including any remaining Manchurian FT17's (the Sunburst replacing the geometric markings) in the early 1930's ?

If anybody has any more information or pictures on the FT17 markings or colors used on it would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby YC Chen » 23 Jan 2010 02:06

I don't know. Maybe the background was blue. I'm not an expert on old photos:)
I still can't see HC8604's photo. Can anybody help me?
However, I don't think the FTs in Fengtian Army carried the same marking during the Second Sino-Japanese War. I think only the two FTs that were sent to Nanking by Zhang Xueliang were repainted like this.

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby HC8604 » 24 Jan 2010 19:10

Hopefully this works.. sorry for the delay!
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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby YC Chen » 25 Jan 2010 07:59

Thank you, thank you! I have never seen this photo before.
I think this photo was also taken in Nanking. However, the tank's gun mount looks very interesting. It's obvious that the gun mount is different from those for ZB-26 LMG on other Chinese FT-17s. Does it suggest that this one used to have different armament?

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby YC Chen » 25 Jan 2010 08:17

Look at this photo from WiKipredia, this Chinese FT(not Japanese FT, note the converted gun mount) seemed to have a star on its front plate.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... churia.jpg
Was this marking painted by Fengtian army or by the Japanese? Fengtian army before 1928 and army of Manchokuo both used stars as there markings.

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby Akira Takizawa » 26 Jan 2010 05:41

WestSand wrote:Look at this photo from WiKipredia, this Chinese FT(not Japanese FT, note the converted gun mount) seemed to have a star on its front plate.

No, it is Japanese FT in the Manchurian Incident. The gun mount was converted by the Japanese.

Taki

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby Akira Takizawa » 26 Jan 2010 12:36

I upload a photo fo Renault FT17 of Fengtian army. This photo was taken at Mukden in 1930. Note a 2-digit number at sponson.

Taki
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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby YC Chen » 31 Jan 2010 10:19

Thank you very much Akira! Two of the three tanks in the first row were obviously armed with Type 14 3.7cm infantry gun built in Fengtian Arsenal. This gun was an ordinary weapon of Fengtian army at that time. Very rare photo!!
Do you know more about the Japanese modifications of FT-17s and captured Chinese FT-17s in Japan and Manchokuo? And,what was the colour of the star on that Japanese FT-17?
P.S. Do you have some other photos of Fengtian army's armored vehicles? These photos are very hard to find in China, not only in Chinese mainland, but also in Taiwan because Fengtian army wasn't an "orthodox" army like NRA.

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby Akira Takizawa » 31 Jan 2010 16:10

> Do you know more about the Japanese modifications of FT-17s and captured Chinese FT-17s in Japan and Manchokuo?

French 37mm gun of Japanese FT was replaced with Japanese 37mm infantry gun. French MG was also replaced with Type 3 HMG. Later, it was replaced with Type 11 LMG. In Manchuria, LMG was replaced with captured ZB26. I don't know about the modification of captured FT.

> And,what was the colour of the star on that Japanese FT-17?

White

> Do you have some other photos of Fengtian army's armored vehicles?

I upload a photo of Chinese FTs captured by the Japanese in Manchurian Incident. Unfortunately, tanks are small and cannot idenfity the details.

Taki
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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby SASH155 » 31 Jan 2010 18:36

It seems that the machinegun mounted in the tank in the middle of the formation is a Hotchkiss LMG from the form of the barrel, probably a surplus ex-British army Hotchkiss Mk. I .303 tank MG. I have seen other photos (one is of this parade, but from a different angle) here and on Overvalvagens with this type of MG.

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Re: Questions on Chinese FT-17s

Postby YC Chen » 01 Feb 2010 11:27

Thank you Arika! Very interesting photo. Do you know how many Japanese FTs were armed with captured ZB-26s?
SASH155, can you upload the photo you mentioned? I still think the machine gun was ZB-26. Unfortunately, it seems that none of the photos I have is clear enough to identfy the MG.


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