Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

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SASH155
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Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by SASH155 » 29 Jan 2010 01:28

Siam:

Pistols and Revolvers:

7.63 x 25mm Mauser: Mauser C-96 “Broomhandle” pistol. Siam acquired unknown quantities of C-96 Broomhandles from Oberndorf starting in 1911, primarily for use by police forces.

7.63 x 25mm Mauser: Astra Model 903 copies of the Mauser C-96 “Broomhandle” pistol. Siam purchased an undisclosed quantity of Model 903 pistols during the mid-1930s (likely no more than a few hundred); these pistols were characterized by their detachable ten round and twenty round box magazines.

7.65 x 17mm: Gabilondo y Compania (“Llama”) Model X pistol. A smaller pistol based on the Colt M-1911, but it had a solid backstrap and no grip safety. This type of pistol was sold to the Siamese military from 1935-ca. 1940.

8mm Nambu Bottlenecked (similar to 7.63mm Mauser): Taisho Fourth Year (1915) Nambu pistol. Unknown quantities (likely fewer than 1000) of these pistols were imported into Mexico for commercial sale to Japanese immigrants, likely during the early 1920s. The only other country to officially adopt this pistol was Siam (Thailand), which imported 500 of these pistols shortly after their introduction in 1915. The manufacturer of the pistols sold in Mexico is said to have been Kayaba Kogyo Kabushiki Kaisha, also simply known as Kayaba Kabushiki K.K. This pistol was one of the rare examples of Japanese designed and manufactured weaponry exported outside of the Japanese Empire.

9 x 17mm Browning (aka. 9mm “Corto”): Gabilondo y Compania (“Llama”) Model III pistol. This pistol was based on the Colt M-1911, and was characterized by its solid backstrap and lack of a grip safety. These pistols were sold to Siam from ca. 1935-1940.

9 x 19mm Parabellum: Gabilondo y Compania (“Llama”) Model XI pistol (aka. “Modello Especial”). This pistol was also based on the M-1911, but was characterized by its distinctive grip profile, and the lack of a grip safety. Sales of this pistol to Siam began about 1936 and would have continued until 1939 or 1940.

9 x 23mm Bergman-Bayard (aka. 9mm “Largo”): Gabilondo y Compania (“Llama”) Model VII pistol. Design based on Colt M-1911, but lacks grip safety and has a solid backstrap. Sales of these pistols to Siam started around 1932, and continued through ca. 1939-1940, when Franco took over in Spain.

9 x 23mm Bergman-Bayard (aka. 9mm “Largo”): Gabilondo y Compania (“Llama”) Model VIII pistol. Another pistol based on the Colt M-1911, but this time with a grip safety. Introduced in 1939, sales of this pistol to Saim were likely brief due to the Nationalist takeover in Spain.

9 x 23mm Largo or 11.43x 23mm (.45 ACP) ?: Star Model M or Model MD (Type 80/ Model of 1937) selective fire pistols. Siam acquired small numbers of these Spanish made pistols during the late 1930s. Siam tried to set up a factory with British machine tools to make these pistols locally in 1938, but this project was halted due to the start of the Second World War.

Submachine guns:


Rifles:

11 x 60mm: Mauser M-1871 rifle: Siam ordered an undetermined quantity of these rifles during the 1870s and 1880s, and as such were the first modern rifles in use in Siam.

8 x 50mmR: M-1888 and M-1888-90 Mannlicher rifles: This was one of the first straight-pull Mannlichers, and was used not only by the Austro-Hungarian Empire, but was also exported to Bulgaria, Chile, Greece, Siam and apparently, China. These rifles were supplied to Siam by Steyr (Österreichische Waffenfabriks-Gesellschaft), likely during the early to mid 1890s. It is possible that the standard Siamese 8mm cartridge was modeled from the Mannlicher 8 x 50mmR.

8 x 50mmR and 8 x 52R Siamese: Japanese Arisaka Type 30 (Model of 1897) and Type 35 (Model of 1902) rifles: Siam purchased an unknown quantity of Japanese Arisaka Type 30 and Type 35 rifles prior to 1920 chambered for the bottlenecked Siamese 8 x 50mmR cartridge (after 1923 Siam would re-chamber her rifles for the new 8 x 52mmR cartridge which had a pointed bullet).

8 x 50mmR and 8 x 52R Siamese: Type 45 (M-1902) Mauser rifle: This became the standard service rifle in Siam from 1903, replacing the Mannlichers in frontline service. Siam purchased an unknown quantity of these weapons from the Koishikawa arsenal between 1903 and 1908. Most were re-chambered after 1923 in 8 x 52mmR, and as such were redesignated Type 45/66 (M-1902/23). The rifles were distinctive in having Japanese style pointed pistol grip stocks and sliding bolt covers, as on Arisaka rifles.

7 x 57mm Mauser: Type 47 (M-1904) Mauser rifle. Siam purchased an undetermined quantity of M-1904 export rifles (similar to ones sold to Brazil and China as the M-1907, Chile as the M-1904, and Costa Rica and Venezuela as the M-1910) prior to 1914. They differed from the others in having slightly longer barrels and weighing slightly more. These rifles may have been acquired because of a shortage of Type 45 rifles.

8 x 52R Siamese: Type 66 (M-1923) Mauser short rifle: Made at Koishikawa from 1923, it is believed that many of these weapons were simply cut down Type 45 rifles for use by artillery and cavalry units. Some of these weapons may have been newly made, however.

7 x 57mm Mauser or 7.92 x 57mm Mauser?: ZB (Brno) ZH-29 semi-automatic rifle: This advanced rifle was designed by Emanuel Holek ca. 1927-1928, allegedly to meet a Chinese requirement for a semi-auto rifle. China acquired 150 of the rifles in 1929, and several hundred more were purchased through 1932, for a total of between 500 and 600 of these very well made rifles. This rifle was also exported in small quantities to Siam and Ethiopia, and was tested in 1932 by both Romania and Turkey. Several undisclosed South American countries tested the weapon as well.




Machine guns:

8 x 52R Siamese: M-1925, M-1930, M-1934, M-1939, M-1947, M-1949 and M-1951 Madsen light machineguns. The Madsen was the standard light machinegun employed by the Siamese army for many years. The last variant, the M-1951, chambered the U.S. 30-06 (7.62x63mm) cartridge. The differences between the various “models” of Madsen guns was often none to negligible, and usually simply represented the dates the guns were ordered and manufactured more than any significant design or detail change. However, there seems to have been a change during the mid to late 1920s in the design of the flash hider/muzzle booster assembly, and the form of the stock (a pronounced angle in the butt stock seems to have characterized weapons made after ca. 1923-1924).

8 x 52R Siamese: ZB (Brno) vz. 26 light machine gun. Reported, but details are sparse on the quantity and date they were acquired.

8 x 52R Siamese: Colt-Browning M-1924 heavy machine gun. Siam acquired 216 of these re-designated M-1919 Browning water cooled HMGs in January 1925 from Colt.

8 x 52R Siamese: Vickers Class “C” heavy machine gun. Siam purchased 742 Class “C” Vickers guns between 1929 and 1936, ten of which were Vickers Class “C/T” tank machine guns for mounting in the ten Vickers armored cars acquired in 1933. Apparently these weapons were designated Type 77 and Type 76 respectively.

7.7 x 56mm R (.303 British) and 8 x 52R Siamese: Vickers Class “E” and “F” aircraft machine gun. Siam acquired 344 Class “E” fixed aircraft guns and 102 Class “F” flexible aircraft machine guns between 1926 and 1937.

12.7 x 81mm (.50 caliber Vickers): Vickers Class “B” heavy aircraft gun. Siam acquired 49 of these unusual Vickers aircraft machine guns between 1934 and 1937.

12.7 x 120mmSR (.50 caliber Vickers): Vickers Class “D” High Velocity heavy machine gun. China acquired twenty of these guns as anti-aircraft weapons in 1932 via Jardine-Matheson in Hong Kong. Siam acquired 24 of these guns as well, and Japan acquired the balance of 56.

Mortars:

Anti-Tank Weapons:

Artillery:

47mm/81mm: Bofors M-1934 (Type 77) dual purpose field gun. These unusual weapons had a 47mm barrel for anti-tank work and an 81mm barrel for use as a mortar mounted in an over-under fashion with the 47mm gun on top. They were used as direct infantry support weapons. Siam took delivery of 32 of these guns in 1935. See entry for China above also.

75mm: Rheinmetall (formerly Ehrhardt) M-1914 mountain gun (7.5cm GebK. L/16 “China” M-1914). China ordered this weapon just before the First World War, and reports state that the German government seized all 18 of the guns for its own use, later passing these and some newly built weapons on to the Austro-Hungarian army and Ottoman Turkey. Nine batteries of a very similar weapon had been sold to Norway as the 7.5cm Mountain Howitzer M. 11, and photographic evidence indicates that Siam may have purchased a few as well.

75mm: Bofors M-1934 or M-1935 field gun: This was a new Bofors design, with the hydro-pneumatic buffer in the cradle and a hydraulic recuperator on top, somewhat reminiscent of the German 10.5 cm leFH-18 in appearance. 200 pieces were received by China from Bofors out of 224 ordered (the remaining 24 were seized by Sweden to arm her own army; eight of the weapons were passed on to Finland in 1940). These guns were also purchased by Belgium (20) and Siam (52 out of an order for 80 guns delivered between 1937 and 1940; the balance of 28 guns was seized by Sweden in 1940 for use by her own army); China reportedly purchased a few as well. Sweden used a slightly modified version designated M/40. Argentina passed on several of these guns to Bolivia in 1971, as well as to Paraguay around the same time. Argentina also supplied Uruguay a battery of the guns in 1979. Some 70 of these weapons were still in service or in reserve as late as 2005.

75mm: Bofors M-1930 mountain gun. Bofors exported this weapon in large numbers not only to China, but also to Argentina (M-1936), Bulgaria (M-1936), the Netherlands East Indies (7.5cm berg), Persia (M-1934), Siam (which received eight of the Turkish M. 30 guns in 1934), Switzerland (7.5cm GebK. 33), and Turkey (7.5cm/20 M. 30). Even the Germans purchased some, which they designated the 7.5 cm GebH. 34. Cockerill in Belgium made the gun under license for the Belgian army as the “Canon de 75mm mle. 1934”.

105mm: Bofors L/22 M-1936 field howitzer (Type 79). Siam took delivery of twenty of these field howitzers out of an order for 36 between 1936 and 1940. The balance of 16 was diverted in 1940 for use by the Swedish army. Similar weapons were supplied to the Netherlands East Indies in 1924 designated as the “10.5cm houwitzer L/22” by the Dutch, and to a weapon supplied to Denmark during the late 1930s designated the 105mm M.35 L/16.7 Bof. field howitzer by the Danes. Peru took delivery of an unknown quantity of these howitzers designated M-1929.

105mm: Bofors M-1934 L/42 field gun. Siam acquired four of these counter battery guns in early 1935. Persia was another customer for this weapon.

149mm: Bofors M-1934 L/24 field howitzer. Siam acquired eight of these howitzers in 1936. Turkey bought a similar gun designated the 15cm/24 M. 39.



Anti-Aircraft Guns:

75mm: Bofors M-1929 anti-aircraft gun: China acquired an unknown quantity of these guns from Bofors during the 1930s, and as well as being used in two versions by Sweden itself (M/29 in 75mm and M/30 in 80mm), they were exported to Argentina (apparently for trials purposes only), Finland, Greece, Hungary (in 80mm as the 8cm 29M), Iran, the Netherlands East Indies (in 80mm as the kanon van 8 ld) and Siam, which acquired 18 of these AA guns between 1936 and 1939 in 75mm as the M-1930 (Type 73).

Armored Fighting Vehicles:
Last edited by SASH155 on 30 Jan 2010 00:11, edited 2 times in total.

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Peter H
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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by Peter H » 29 Jan 2010 07:55

Thanks for the three posts.Great information.

Peter

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by Sid Guttridge » 30 Jan 2010 13:49

Hi Sash155,

It is tremendously generous of you to share so much hard work on open forum.

Are you prepatring a book on the two countries? If so, I would be in the market.

Many thanks,

Sid.

SASH155
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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by SASH155 » 30 Jan 2010 17:02

I agonized for some time as to whether I should post this doc. to an open site such as this, but I was careful to put my name on it, and it is taken from many open source materials readily available, but never synthesized in one place before now. I would eventually like to get published in a proper manner, yes. I am working at the same time on a similar document for Latin America which is even longer (124 pages appr. so far) than this one, which so far comes to a total of forty-two.

Wisarut
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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by Wisarut » 02 Aug 2012 09:39

SASH155 wrote:Siam:

Rifles:

11 x 60mm: Mauser M-1871 rifle: Siam ordered an undetermined quantity of these rifles during the 1870s and 1880s, and as such were the first modern rifles in use in Siam.
Never heard this one before ... Probably, Schindler rifle used by Siamese Army durign the day of Haw suppression in 1887.
SASH155 wrote:8 x 50mmR: M-1888 and M-1888-90 Mannlicher rifles: This was one of the first straight-pull Mannlichers, and was used not only by the Austro-Hungarian Empire, but was also exported to Bulgaria, Chile, Greece, Siam and apparently, China. These rifles were supplied to Siam by Steyr (Österreichische Waffenfabriks-Gesellschaft), likely during the early to mid 1890s. It is possible that the standard Siamese 8mm cartridge was modeled from the Mannlicher 8 x 50mmR.
Ah, this one I have already heard before ... This type of rifle had been imported to Siam through B.Grimm ... and it has become a standard issue esp the Haw suppression in 1887, Paknam incident in 1893 the suppression of rebels in the North, Isan and Pattani in 1901-2.
SASH155 wrote:8 x 50mmR and 8 x 52R Siamese: Japanese Arisaka Type 30 (Model of 1897) and Type 35 (Model of 1902) rifles: Siam purchased an unknown quantity of Japanese Arisaka Type 30 and Type 35 rifles prior to 1920 chambered for the bottlenecked Siamese 8 x 50mmR cartridge (after 1923 Siam would re-chamber her rifles for the new 8 x 52mmR cartridge which had a pointed bullet).
This one is more like an experiment ...
SASH155 wrote:8 x 50mmR and 8 x 52R Siamese: Type 45 (M-1902) Mauser rifle: This became the standard service rifle in Siam from 1903, replacing the Mannlichers in frontline service. Siam purchased an unknown quantity of these weapons from the Koishikawa arsenal between 1903 and 1908. Most were re-chambered after 1923 in 8 x 52mmR, and as such were predesignated Type 45/66 (M-1902/23). The rifles were distinctive in having Japanese style pointed pistol grip stocks and sliding bolt covers, as on Arisaka rifles.
We have imported 40000 Ror Sor rifles (Type 45) along 3 million Bullets ... Here the detail
http://www.thailandoutdoor.com/GunStory ... auser.html

BTW, after this Type 45 has become a standard, Siamese marines getting M-1888-90 Mannlicher rifles as the standard issue ...
SASH155 wrote:7 x 57mm Mauser: Type 47 (M-1904) Mauser rifle. Siam purchased an undetermined quantity of M-1904 export rifles (similar to ones sold to Brazil and China as the M-1907, Chile as the M-1904, and Costa Rica and Venezuela as the M-1910) prior to 1914. They differed from the others in having slightly longer barrels and weighing slightly more. These rifles may have been acquired because of a shortage of Type 45 rifles.
I think this may be a misunderstanding ... This Type 47 one has used the same 8 x 50mmR and 8 x 52R Siamese: and this one is for Cavalry men so it has to be shorter than Type 45. We have imported 10000 rifles of Type 47 for cavalry men
http://www.thailandoutdoor.com/GunStory ... auser.html
SASH155 wrote: 8 x 52R Siamese: Type 66 (M-1923) Mauser short rifle: Made at Koishikawa from 1923, it is believed that many of these weapons were simply cut down Type 45 rifles for use by artillery and cavalry units. Some of these weapons may have been newly made, however.
Ah Type 66 rifle - have been approved in 12923 but economic hard time and series of retrenchment forcing the delay of purchase and delivery to 1928. After this Type 66 rifle has become a standard for Siamese Army, the Type 45 rifles have become a standard issue for Siamese marine. - 60 Bullets (12 cartridges of 5 bullets) per person for each day.
SASH155 wrote: Machine guns:

8 x 52R Siamese: M-1925, M-1930, M-1934, M-1939, M-1947, M-1949 and M-1951 Madsen light machineguns. The Madsen was the standard light machinegun employed by the Siamese army for many years. The last variant, the M-1951, chambered the U.S. 30-06 (7.62x63mm) cartridge. The differences between the various “models” of Madsen guns was often none to negligible, and usually simply represented the dates the guns were ordered and manufactured more than any significant design or detail change. However, there seems to have been a change during the mid to late 1920s in the design of the flash hider/muzzle booster assembly, and the form of the stock (a pronounced angle in the butt stock seems to have characterized weapons made after ca. 1923-1924).
Ah, Madsen Light Machine guns - Type 66 Light Machine gun (AKA Madsen model 1904) - the standard issue of the 4th company of Siamese Infantry Battalion - 1200 Bullets (40 cartridges of 30 bullets) per person for each day.
SASH155 wrote: 8 x 52R Siamese: ZB (Brno) vz. 26 light machine gun. Reported, but details are sparse on the quantity and date they were acquired.
Never heard about this one before.
SASH155 wrote: 8 x 52R Siamese: Colt-Browning M-1924 heavy machine gun. Siam acquired 216 of these re-designated M-1919 Browning water cooled HMGs in January 1925 from Colt.
For M-1917 Browning water cooled HMGs, we called Type 66 Heavy Machine gun ... and the later mentioned in this quote is considered as the variation of Type 66 Heavy Machine guns.
SASH155 wrote: 8 x 52R Siamese: Vickers Class “C” heavy machine gun. Siam purchased 742 Class “C” Vickers guns between 1929 and 1936, ten of which were Vickers Class “C/T” tank machine guns for mounting in the ten Vickers armored cars acquired in 1933. Apparently these weapons were designated Type 77 and Type 76 respectively.
8 x 52R Siamese: Vickers Class “C” heavy machine gun is Type 77 Heavy machine gun while the 40mm machine guns used 10 Vicker Armstrong Armour is considered as "Anti Aircraft Tank Type 76
SASH155 wrote:7.7 x 56mm R (.303 British) and 8 x 52R Siamese: Vickers Class “E” and “F” aircraft machine gun. Siam acquired 344 Class “E” fixed aircraft guns and 102 Class “F” flexible aircraft machine guns between 1926 and 1937.

That's Rama 6 rifles used by Wild Tiger Corp (10000 rifles had been purchased in 1920 to replace Mannlicher rifles) until the disband of Wild Tiger in 1926. It has been later transferred to Royal Thai Police ... Here is the detail
http://www.thailandoutdoor.com/GunStory ... rama6.html
SASH155 wrote:12.7 x 81mm (.50 caliber Vickers): Vickers Class “B” heavy aircraft gun. Siam acquired 49 of these unusual Vickers aircraft machine guns between 1934 and 1937.

12.7 x 120mmSR (.50 caliber Vickers): Vickers Class “D” High Velocity heavy machine gun. China acquired twenty of these guns as anti-aircraft weapons in 1932 via Jardine-Matheson in Hong Kong. Siam acquired 24 of these guns as well, and Japan acquired the balance of 56.


That's Type 80 Anti Aircraft Heavy Machine gun to replace Type 77 heavy machine guns used in the 3rd company in the 1st Anti Aircraft Battalion and the 3rd company in the 2nd Anti Aircraft Battalion while Type 77 heavy machine guns had been transferred to the Heavy Machine gun Platoon in the 1st company of both the 1st Anti Aircraft Battalion and the 2nd Anti Aircraft Battalion ...
After 1941, we got 20 mm anti aircraft gun from IJA and RTA has modified to allow automatic firing while using 6-bullet cartridges
http://aaad.rta.mi.th/about/History/History.htm
SASH155 wrote:Artillery:

47mm/81mm: Bofors M-1934 (Type 77) dual purpose field gun. These unusual weapons had a 47mm barrel for anti-tank work and an 81mm barrel for use as a mortar mounted in an over-under fashion with the 47mm gun on top. They were used as direct infantry support weapons. Siam took delivery of 32 of these guns in 1935. See entry for China above also.

75mm: Bofors M-1934 or M-1935 field gun: This was a new Bofors design, with the hydro-pneumatic buffer in the cradle and a hydraulic recuperator on top, somewhat reminiscent of the German 10.5 cm leFH-18 in appearance. 200 pieces were received by China from Bofors out of 224 ordered (the remaining 24 were seized by Sweden to arm her own army; eight of the weapons were passed on to Finland in 1940). These guns were also purchased by Belgium (20) and Siam (52 out of an order for 80 guns delivered between 1937 and 1940; the balance of 28 guns was seized by Sweden in 1940 for use by her own army); China reportedly purchased a few as well. Sweden used a slightly modified version designated M/40. Argentina passed on several of these guns to Bolivia in 1971, as well as to Paraguay around the same time. Argentina also supplied Uruguay a battery of the guns in 1979. Some 70 of these weapons were still in service or in reserve as late as 2005.

75mm: Bofors M-1930 mountain gun. Bofors exported this weapon in large numbers not only to China, but also to Argentina (M-1936), Bulgaria (M-1936), the Netherlands East Indies (7.5cm berg), Persia (M-1934), Siam (which received eight of the Turkish M. 30 guns in 1934), Switzerland (7.5cm GebK. 33), and Turkey (7.5cm/20 M. 30). Even the Germans purchased some, which they designated the 7.5 cm GebH. 34. Cockerill in Belgium made the gun under license for the Belgian army as the “Canon de 75mm mle. 1934”.

105mm: Bofors L/22 M-1936 field howitzer (Type 79). Siam took delivery of twenty of these field howitzers out of an order for 36 between 1936 and 1940. The balance of 16 was diverted in 1940 for use by the Swedish army. Similar weapons were supplied to the Netherlands East Indies in 1924 designated as the “10.5cm houwitzer L/22” by the Dutch, and to a weapon supplied to Denmark during the late 1930s designated the 105mm M.35 L/16.7 Bof. field howitzer by the Danes. Peru took delivery of an unknown quantity of these howitzers designated M-1929.
1. 105 mm Heavy Projectile Howitzer Type 78 (Bofors) - with the shooting range of 15500 meters and 5700 kg - need to be carried by a truck - and controlled by 12 artillery men.

2. 105 mm Heavy moutain Howitzer Type 78 (Bofors) - with the shooting range of 17860 meters and 3750 kg - need to be carried by a truck - and controlled by 10 artillery men.

3. 75 mm light mountain Type 80 (Bofors - M1930) - used as the Infantry Division Artillery - with the shooting range of 12300 meters and 1375 kg - need to be carried by a truck - and controlled by 6 artillery men.

4. 105 mm light field Type 80 (Bofors M-1934) - with the shooting range of 9900 meters and 1710 kg - need to be carried by a truck - and controlled by 8 artillery men.

More details about Thai Artillery can be seen here - from Type 49 Mountain Gun to Type 95 Howitzer
http://www.arty16.com/board/index.php?topic=28.0
SASH155 wrote:Anti-Aircraft Guns:

75mm: Bofors M-1929 anti-aircraft gun: China acquired an unknown quantity of these guns from Bofors during the 1930s, and as well as being used in two versions by Sweden itself (M/29 in 75mm and M/30 in 80mm), they were exported to Argentina (apparently for trials purposes only), Finland, Greece, Hungary (in 80mm as the 8cm 29M), Iran, the Netherlands East Indies (in 80mm as the kanon van 8 ld) and Siam, which acquired 18 of these AA guns between 1936 and 1939 in 75mm as the M-1930 (Type 73).
Ah, that's Type 77 Anti Aircraft gun - the first batch was 8 and the later batch was 10 anti aircraft
http://aaad.rta.mi.th/about/History/History.htm

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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by SASH155 » 02 Aug 2012 17:08

Thanks for the actual Thai designations for these equipments, BTW: what was a "Schindler" rifle, I have never heard of one before.

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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by Wisarut » 03 Sep 2012 03:27

Image
Image
"Schindler" rifle was the standard rifle imported from Britain since the day of King Mongkut and used in Siamese Army during Haw Suppression in 1885-1888 - each person will get 60 bullets a day

Image
Armstrong cannon (3 inch Mountain gun) imported from Britain and used in Siamese Army during Haw Suppression in 1885-1888 -

Brass Mortar - 100 shells per mortar and Brass Howitzer with 100 shrapnel shells - 100 shells per howitzer

Image
Gatling machine gun imported from USA in 1875 - 1 Squad has 2 Gatling machine guns with 24 marine persons + 1 ensign

http://iseehistory.socita.com/index.php ... 47&Ntype=1
http://www.thaifighterclub.org/webboard ... E%E4%B7%C2

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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by SASH155 » 05 Sep 2012 20:52

The carbine in the photo is actually a Snider breech loading conversion of a muzzle loading Enfield pattern rifled carbine, not a "Schindler". I believe that I mentioned the Snider pattern conversions in my text as being employed by Siam.

Wisarut wrote:Image
Image
"Schindler" rifle was the standard rifle imported from Britain since the day of King Mongkut and used in Siamese Army during Haw Suppression in 1885-1888 - each person will get 60 bullets a day

Image
Armstrong cannon (3 inch Mountain gun) imported from Britain and used in Siamese Army during Haw Suppression in 1885-1888 -

Brass Mortar - 100 shells per mortar and Brass Howitzer with 100 shrapnel shells - 100 shells per howitzer

Image
Gatling machine gun imported from USA in 1875 - 1 Squad has 2 Gatling machine guns with 24 marine persons + 1 ensign

http://iseehistory.socita.com/index.php ... 47&Ntype=1
http://www.thaifighterclub.org/webboard ... E%E4%B7%C2

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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by YC Chen » 06 Sep 2012 12:39

Yes it should be Snider rifle not "Schindler". It was also used and made in China, see the short introduction here:
http://www.beiyang.org/bybq/snd.htm
Interestingly "Snider" was translated as "士乃德" in Chinese, the same as the old Chinese translation of French gun-maker Schneider :wink:

P.S. I'm curious about the numbering system of Siamese weapons - do they refer to the year of the introduction of the weapon, or something else?

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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by Wisarut » 23 Nov 2012 00:14

^^^
We use last 2 Digits of Buddhist era to give a code name for Thai weapons - after Buddhist era has become officially used since 1 April 1913.

Type 66 rifle - commissioned in BE 2466 [1923]

Image
Type 50 rifle [Tavor 21]
BTW, the latest rifle (Tavor 21] has gotten the code name as Type 50 rifle since it was commissioned in BE 2550 [2007]
http://www.siambbgun.com/board/index.php?topic=428984.0

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Re: Armaments of China and Siam to 1949 Part 3: Siam

Post by Jay Felsberg » 26 Feb 2014 22:33

8 x 50mmR and 8 x 52R Siamese: Type 45 (M-1902) Mauser rifle: This became the standard service rifle in Siam from 1903, replacing the Mannlichers in frontline service. Siam purchased an unknown quantity of these weapons from the Koishikawa arsenal between 1903 and 1908. Most were re-chambered after 1923 in 8 x 52mmR, and as such were redesignated Type 45/66 (M-1902/23). The rifles were distinctive in having Japanese style pointed pistol grip stocks and sliding bolt covers, as on Arisaka rifles.

I saw one of these at the Birmingham, AL gun show several years ago. It was is pretty good shape, but, alas, I didn't buy because of the ammo

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