AA gun?

Discussions on all aspects of China, from the beginning of the First Sino-Japanese War till the end of the Chinese Civil War. Hosted by YC Chen.
antinaksi
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 23:35

Re: AA gun?

Post by antinaksi » 17 Nov 2011 16:30

381631_10150354334696666_677581665_8488765_611445943_n.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

SASH155
Member
Posts: 345
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 00:25
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

Re: AA gun?

Post by SASH155 » 05 Jan 2012 00:58

Can anyone on the site provide a complete illustrated outline of the different Oerlikon guns, including their various designations, calibers and service entry/production dates? There seems to be much confusion on this subject, as evidenced by this thread.

antinaksi
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 23:35

Re: AA gun?

Post by antinaksi » 09 Jan 2012 16:56

HI SASH155
I agreed with you; is a very confusing subject. the few authors or historians that know something about this helped
to make it more confusing. Maybe Alcantur can help because he is Bolivian and knows the Bolivian the models they used in the Chaco War.

antinaksi
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 15 Nov 2011 23:35

Re: AA gun?

Post by antinaksi » 06 Feb 2012 20:19

antinaksi wrote:well I hope that my pictures they help somebody. Alcantur sorry to mispell your name up there.
In picture 1 it seems that is a Semag/ Oerlikon Type F/L I can`t tell. the only way is to know what kind of cartridge used it and it also seems like a variation from another angle of the photo posted by me up there the 06 Jul 2010 with the same Paraguayan dotation. It could be an Oerlikon Type L Mod. 1929 o Type 1S Mod.1928; I can`t tell. 11/09/1932. thanks to Kenia Salinas. http://museovirtualdelparaguay.org/v1/?p=2310
Picture 2 is a photo from a Bolivian site and shows also a trio of Paraguayan soldiers posing with a captured Semag/Oerlikon 20mm AA Gun formerly Bolivian during the Chaco War. from the Tocorre forum :: http://www.tocorre.com/es/main.forum.ph ... tid=149091
Photo 3 is "maybe" one of those Twin Barrel Oerlikons called also or known as Oerlikon Mod. Antiguo (old model or type) or known as Oerlikon Mod. Boliviano (Bolivian model or type) that was used by the Bolivians during the Chaco War and sold to Felix Gordon Ordas, Spanish Ambassador in Mexico during the Spanish Civil War that nobody can tell to much of them until finally the Spanish Historian Artemio Mortera Pérez in his new books "Ametralladoras en España (1867/1936)" and "Ametralladoras en España (1936/1939)" say about this AAG that is an Oerlikon Mod. L or ZL. (Z for Zwillinge?). any clues??? please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
Photo 4 also from the net and from the Bolivian newspaper La Patria:: http://www.lapatriaenlinea.com/?nota=43030 and is a note about Orureños soldiers (from Oruro, Bolivia) fighting at the Chaco War during the Battle of Boqueron by Jesús Elías Lucero
And finally photo 5 showing a complete artillery crew of Bolivian gunners handing an AAMG described as Type K Mod.1931, cal. 20x110mm twin barrel
HI EVERYBODY! THIS A REPLAY THAT ALCANTUR KINDLY SEND ME, CORRECTING AND CLEARING ANY DOUBT ABOUT THE TYPES OF 20 mm AA GUNS USED BY THE BOLIVIAN ARMY DURING THE CHACO WAR AND THE ONES CAPTURED FROM THEM BY THE PARAGUAYANS DURING THE SAME CONFLICT. THANK YOU SO MUCH ALCANTUR.

Bolivian SEMAG and Oerlikon pictures
Sent: Today, 16:45
From: alcantur
To: antinaksi

Picture 1 is a Bolivian Oerlikon Type L/70 (SEMAG system) Model 1929 captured by Paraguay at Campo Via or El Carmen
Picture 2 is a Bolivian SEMAG L Model 1923 (based on Becker M.II ad Becker TUF guns) captured by Paraguay at Boqueron
Both guns were known in Bolivia generically as SEMAG-Becker because of the developer of the system, and were all provided by Oerlikon; the second ones from the existing stocks inherited by Oerlikon when acquired SEMAG in 1924~26, and the others were new Oerlikon developments based on the SEMAG works.
Picture 3 is a Bolivian Type K model 1931, consisting on twin Oerlikon Type L Model 1929 guns mounted on a J laS pedestal. That's why we know them as Type K(L)
Picture 4 and 5 are also Bolivian Type K Model 1931 but mounting twin Oerlikon 1S Model 1928 guns mounted on the same J laS pedestal. The JlaS was derived from the SS and ISS pedestal mounts developed by Oerlikon for the British navy. These guns were later known as Oerlikon LAAG K.20.

karlik
Member
Posts: 527
Joined: 26 Apr 2009 09:04
Location: Russia

Re: AA gun?

Post by karlik » 10 Feb 2013 14:28

Hi!
2 SEMAG/Oerlikon gun

Image

Image

1- I think it's Typ S
2- ????
Id please!

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 835
Joined: 29 Sep 2009 13:35
Location: Nanking

Re: AA gun?

Post by YC Chen » 18 Feb 2013 12:38

I cant see these photos on my computer. Would you (or anyone who can see these) post it directly on this forum?

karlik
Member
Posts: 527
Joined: 26 Apr 2009 09:04
Location: Russia

Re: AA gun?

Post by karlik » 27 Feb 2013 04:47

8f9d8b483527.jpg
c88430d780c8.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
chiangshan
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: 14 Apr 2011 03:43
Location: Vietnam

Re: AA gun?

Post by chiangshan » 20 May 2016 12:03

Hello, anyone know this gun? The museum says it;s a Chinese 20mm gun. Thank you very much.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 835
Joined: 29 Sep 2009 13:35
Location: Nanking

Re: AA gun?

Post by YC Chen » 21 May 2016 11:15

chiangshan wrote:Hello, anyone know this gun? The museum says it;s a Chinese 20mm gun. Thank you very much.
Chinese Type 71 20mm cannon. A lesser-known Chinese weapon mostly manufactured during the "Cultural Revolution" period. However, many were sent to Vietnam and were allegedly used successfully against American helicopters.

Very nice surviving example. Which museum is it on display?

User avatar
chiangshan
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: 14 Apr 2011 03:43
Location: Vietnam

Re: AA gun?

Post by chiangshan » 22 May 2016 06:49

YC Chen wrote:
chiangshan wrote:Hello, anyone know this gun? The museum says it;s a Chinese 20mm gun. Thank you very much.
Chinese Type 71 20mm cannon. A lesser-known Chinese weapon mostly manufactured during the "Cultural Revolution" period. However, many were sent to Vietnam and were allegedly used successfully against American helicopters.

Very nice surviving example. Which museum is it on display?
Thank you for the info. It's displayed at the Vietnam Weapon Museum in Hanoi. Do you have any info and pictures of the Type-71 cannon, especially it's specification? Thanks in advance.

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 835
Joined: 29 Sep 2009 13:35
Location: Nanking

Re: AA gun?

Post by YC Chen » 25 May 2016 17:43

chiangshan wrote:
YC Chen wrote:
chiangshan wrote:Hello, anyone know this gun? The museum says it;s a Chinese 20mm gun. Thank you very much.
Chinese Type 71 20mm cannon. A lesser-known Chinese weapon mostly manufactured during the "Cultural Revolution" period. However, many were sent to Vietnam and were allegedly used successfully against American helicopters.

Very nice surviving example. Which museum is it on display?
Thank you for the info. It's displayed at the Vietnam Weapon Museum in Hanoi. Do you have any info and pictures of the Type-71 cannon, especially it's specification? Thanks in advance.
Here it is:
The 20mm automatic gun Type 71(factory number WA705) was first conceived in 1963 after the Sino-Indian border conflict for use in the Himalayas. The gun was designed and manufactured in Chongqing, with the design work finished in 1969 and tests passed in 1971(hence the name Type 71).

The gun entered small patch production in 1972 but was never officially adopted by Chinese army. However some of it were sent to Vietnam. Perhaps a vehicle-carried version was also tested(not sure).

The Type 71 was designed as a dual purpose gun which could fire at both aircraft and ground target. It was typically a pack gun, disassembled and carried by mules, but it can also be carried on the shoulders of the crew(towing not possible in the Himalayas).

Caliber 20mm, total length of the gun 2440mm, weight(carriage excluded) 60.7kg, total length 3264mm, total weight 251kg, height of firing line(when fired at ground target) 430-516mm, elevation -5~85 degrees, tranverse 360 degrees. Used with 40-round drums, rate of fire 150 rpm.

The gun can be disassembled into six parts in 2 minutes with the heaviest part weights 65kg(others about 30kg).

The Type 71 cannon is very rare here in China, I have seen one surviving gun but did not have photos. Perhaps I can find some photos later. I think it's a very interesting little cannon, designed for the mountains of the Himalayas but saw action in the jungles of Vietnam...

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 835
Joined: 29 Sep 2009 13:35
Location: Nanking

Re: AA gun?

Post by YC Chen » 25 May 2016 17:48

Also what's the museum plaque says about the gun? Does it shed some light on its service in Vietnam or provide an alternative specificaton?

User avatar
chiangshan
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: 14 Apr 2011 03:43
Location: Vietnam

Re: AA gun?

Post by chiangshan » 26 May 2016 05:09

YC Chen wrote:Also what's the museum plaque says about the gun? Does it shed some light on its service in Vietnam or provide an alternative specificaton?
Many thanks for your info. Unfortunately the museum says nothing about the gun's history except it was made in China. The specification are provided as below but I have the feeling that they get it mixed up with the Oerlikon.

Weight: 480kg.
Length: 2.210m.
Crew: 3.
Rate of fire: 450 rpm.
Muzzle velocity: 820m/s.

Return to “China at War 1895-1949”