Uniform Colour KMT

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cptan
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Uniform Colour KMT

#1

Post by cptan » 11 Oct 2010, 10:57

Spilt from The War in Pictures

Hi,

I'm new in this forum... wonder anyone can tell me the uniform colour of KMT army at WW2 period. I've seen some colour pictures here shows them wearing desert khaki colour, some shows green, some said light blue...??

Most Chinese war movie I've watched whether by China or Taiwan production, most show the chinese army wearing light blue or greyish blue uniform fighting against the Japanese.

Hope I'm not posted in the wrong area.


CPTan

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Josef_xia
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Re: The War in Pictures

#2

Post by Josef_xia » 11 Oct 2010, 20:10

cptan wrote:Hi,

I'm new in this forum... wonder anyone can tell me the uniform colour of KMT army at WW2 period. I've seen some colour pictures here shows them wearing desert khaki colour, some shows green, some said light blue...??

Most Chinese war movie I've watched whether by China or Taiwan production, most show the chinese army wearing light blue or greyish blue uniform fighting against the Japanese.

Hope I'm not posted in the wrong area.


CPTan
Image
and another link:http://bbs.tiexue.net/post2_2843353_1.html, hope it does help. Sorry for no translat, if you have any question, just tell me and I will try to answer you. :)
Regards


cptan
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Re: The War in Pictures

#3

Post by cptan » 12 Oct 2010, 04:06

Josef
No need t o translate, as i can read chinese. Thank alot fpr the picture and URL.

So during Japanese invade Lu Guo Bridge and Shanghai period, did the Chinese army wore blue or green?

actually i'm a figure modeler, I'm trying to collect info to sculpt and paint a 120mm figure.
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YC Chen
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Re: The War in Pictures

#4

Post by YC Chen » 12 Oct 2010, 11:48

Well, I think the question is hard to answer...
Different armies did have different uniforms, and even you know the colour, it's difficult to know what the exact tone was. And for some armies few colour photos are available, like some warlord armies.
What period do you want to set your figure in? And what army? If you can provide more detail, maybe I can find some info for you. For "Central Army", I think the picture Joset_xia posted is close the the right tone.

cptan
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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#5

Post by cptan » 13 Oct 2010, 04:34

YC Chen

I'm interested in Chinese army defending 77 LuGou Bridge (Marco polo Bridge) and the fanous 800 heroes of Shi Hang warehouse.

Hope U guys can help.

CPTan

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Peter H
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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#6

Post by Peter H » 15 Oct 2010, 13:07

From The Chinese Army 1937–49 World War II and Civil War by Philip Jowett.

1937--Northern,Central China.Looks like a tan,light brown type colour.No idea if picture is accurate.
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YC Chen
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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#7

Post by YC Chen » 16 Oct 2010, 10:45

Chinese soldier defending Lugou Bridge, note the big sword on his back.
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HC8604
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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#8

Post by HC8604 » 19 Oct 2010, 00:43

Our reenacting group uses the yellow green uniform as shown above. We do the central army during the Shanghai battle period. A lot of advertisements in the US (like Cocacola, Dow Jones,) during WWII have the Chinese soldiers wearing the yellow green color.

I have seen a few originals here and there but most seem like the khaki color. Although new uniforms will be the original color, it will fade over time.

In the Jowett book, it is widely known that the M35 came in apple green color, but I don't know why the color drawings are grey.

In the uniform diagram Josef posted, what does it say 1936-1942 for?

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Josef_xia
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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#9

Post by Josef_xia » 21 Oct 2010, 10:41

HC8604 wrote:In the uniform diagram Josef posted, what does it say 1936-1942 for?
"KMT ARMY summer uniforms 1936-1942“
regards

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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#10

Post by HC8604 » 24 Oct 2010, 03:25

So what changed after 1942?

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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#11

Post by cptan » 21 Dec 2010, 06:34

I presume the withdraw of German military support to Chinese Central Army and German gear fade away.... Allied supplies like Russia, US and Britain comes in.

CPTan

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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#12

Post by yuch » 26 Dec 2010, 21:46

Hi everyone…
Let me clear all your doubts.
The uniform of the national revolutionary army (NRA )of the KMT originates from the uniforms don by the cadets of the whampoa academy set up by Dr. Sun Yat Sen in 1924. The uniform was fashioned and improvised from the Zhongshan suit famously wore by Dr. Sun Yat Sen. The outfit was bluish grey with a peak cap commonly wore by armies during the inter-wars years.
Before the reunification of china under the KMT banner in 1929, the armies which were not under KMT governance wore different type of outfit. Example: The poorer Szechuan armies wore yellow Khaki uniform normally with bermudas, strapped puttee and straw sandals. The Northern army under General Zhang Xueliang wore a similar bluish grey uniform with Siberian fur hats. Northwestern armies under Gen. Feng Yuxiang and Gen. Yan Xishan wore bluish grey uniform with field cap with foldable ear flaps tied to top of the cap. Some troops were issued the british brodie helmets. Yunnan troops under Gen. Long Yun wore deep blue uniform (more similar to the French azure blue of WW1) and French Adrian helmets. This was perhaps due to the close proximity to French indo-china.
After the split with the communists, KMT Government ousted soviet military advisors and engaged German assistance to modernize its armed forces. Germany was the only country willing to assist China at that time perhaps it was also to due to the fact that Germany being the defeated country after WW1 and they were not allowed to expand its military due to the armistice. Many professional generals who had lost their livelihood were more than willing to work as military advisors in China.
By 1935, the KMT government officially issued a standardization of military uniform to align the various types of uniform wore by soldiers across China, the design of the tunic was further improved based on the “Zhongshan suit”. A new type of easier-to-make field cap was introduced replacing the peak cap. It’s a round flat top field cap with foldable extension to be sides pinned with 2 buttons on the forehead. This field cap later became the symbol of a common Chinese soldier. 2.5 million German M35 helmets were also imported between 1935-38, they were initially issued to the troops belonging to the Whampoa clique. As the war progressed with American supplies (American M1 helmets) streaming into China from 1942, the older stockpile of German M35 helmets were then issued to the provincial armies commanded by the former warlords. German M35 helmets continued to be seen even till the Chinese Civil War in (1946-49). In additional, Senior Officers were issued an additional set of Dark Olive Tan uniform wore during formal occasion.
In 1938, these German advisors were recalled to Germany due to pressure by the Japanese. By then, 8 divisions have been fully or partially trained and fully equipped with German military gear. Most notably were the 88th & 89th division. Being the elites of the NRA, they were issued summer, Autumn and winter gear. The summer gear was “pale apple green”; the autumn gear was in Khaki and the winter gear was the bluish-grey outfit. After the Battle of Shanghai in 1938, the summer & autumn gear were soon replaced with a mustard khaki outfit.
Most of the armies under the central KMT government were issued with both the summer gear (mustard khaki outfit) and the winter gear (the bluish-grey outfit), the lesser equipped provincial northern armies continue to don in the common bluish grey winter outfit. Likewise, the communist forces (new 4th army & 8th route army) whom had agreed to fight under the NRA banner wore the NRA common bluish grey winter outfit. It is interesting to note that the bluish grey canvas type of fabric used tends to lose its blue hue after a few washes leaving a pale grey appearance and due the difference in the sources of fabric derived from and dye used in the manufacturing, different shades of blue or grey were developed. Hence, there is always a confusion caused over the colour of the uniform wore. This has puzzled many military historians since.
Another interesting episode was the Chinese Expeditionary Force sent into Burma in 1942. They were formed from the remnants of the german trained divisions after the Battle of Shanghai. They were initially armed with German equipments in mustard khaki outfit. These forces later became the nucleus of Force X (from india) and Force Y (from china) re-entering Burma in 1944. Force X by 1944 was fully equipped with a mix of British and American gear while Force Y were partially equipped with American gear.
Generally, there is no standardization in the colouration of the Chinese military outfits. Both KMT and communists forces wore these similar uniform from 1937-1949.
Most television / movies productions tend to depict the communist in bluish grey uniform while the KMT forces in mustard khaki outfit which was not very true.
KMT forces don in both mix of khaki and bluish grey during the battle of Tai’er zhuang. The Famous 200th Division was in the winter bluish grey uniform during the Battle of Kunlun Pass in 1940 and in the summer khaki outfit when entering Burma. The KMT 21st Division which occupied Taiwan upon the surrendering of the Japanese in 1945 wore bluish grey outfit. The remnants of the KMT forces which escaped into Burma (1950) under General Li Mi also wore the bluish grey uniform.
29th Army ( 7.7 Marco Polo Bridge Incident) wore bluish grey.
88th and 89th Division (Battle of Shanghai , Si Hang warehouse) wore pale apple green
Communist - 8th route Army wore bluish grey which were mostly discoloured, ragged and torn towards end of war.
New 1st Army (Force X) fully equipped in American gear with M43 jacket and M1 helmet , strapped puttee continues to be the signature style.
New 6th Army fully equipped in British gear with the Brodie helmet and strapped puttee continues to be the signature style.

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Leonard
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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#13

Post by Leonard » 27 Dec 2010, 20:08

Thanks Yuch! This is so far the most detailed description I see everywhere in any language.

cptan
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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#14

Post by cptan » 28 Dec 2010, 05:50

Thanks a million Yuch for the detail description of KMT army uniform in various period :-)

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Peter H
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Re: Uniform Colour KMT

#15

Post by Peter H » 06 Feb 2011, 12:34

From js.voc.com.cn

Different shades here
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