Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Discussions on all aspects of China, from the beginning of the First Sino-Japanese War till the end of the Chinese Civil War. Hosted by YC Chen.
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YC Chen
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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by YC Chen » 15 May 2010 10:52

Thanks! In fact, I discovered "米罗夫" and "谢苗诺夫" were two different men soon after I posted this. Chinese sources state that Merkulov moved Dezhou Arsenal(德州兵工厂) to Jinan and changed its name to Jinan Arsenal. He made uniform and some other equipments for White Russian soldiers in the Arsenal. But I don't know if they are bad or extra-expensive, I only know the Russian soldiers' living standard were much higher than the Chinese soldiers in Zhang Zongchang's army.
However, Jinan arsenal was famous for the bad-quality weapons it produced. In NRA's official report, it was said to be the worst of five main arsenals in China. One of the most interesting things that Merkulov did was to use explosive from Chinese firecrackers to made grenades and was laughed at by the Chinese. :D
The list I posted was from a old Chinese book-"Selected HIstory Materials of Liaoning Province No.8"(辽宁文史资料选辑 第八辑, maybe published in the 1980s). I think if you want to learn more about the military history of China, you can read more books from the huge "Selected History Materials" series.
Sorry don't know much about Chinese navy. But I have some materials about Dongbei Navy. Maybe I can post some for you later.

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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by YC Chen » 20 Jun 2010 10:04

This morning I went to our local bookshop and found a new Chinese book on this event named "the Chinese-Oriental Railroad and the Chinese-Oriental Railroad Inccident"(中东路与中东路事件). This book was published in March 2010.

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Kim Sung
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Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by Kim Sung » 20 Jun 2010 13:32

Some photos I took at the Shrine of Loyalty (忠烈祠) in Taipei
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Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by Kim Sung » 20 Jun 2010 13:45

A good Taiwanese link on the Chinese-Oriental Railroad Inccident (中東路事件)

The Battle of Manchouli on November 7 where Wei Chang-Lin was killed
...□ 滿洲里戰役:滿洲里位于中東鐵路最西端,是通往蘇聯和外蒙的必經之地。11月7日,蘇軍幵始轟炸和圍攻滿洲里。東北軍第15旅英勇還擊,堅守陣地。扎賚諾爾戰役打響后,第15旅企圖突圍東援第17旅,但未成功。不久,攻占扎賚諾爾的蘇軍轉向西進,第15旅陷入重重包圍之中。東北軍拼死抗爭,傷亡日增﹔在孤立無援、彈盡糧絕之時,向南突圍,复遭蘇軍堵截,結果以失敗告終。此役,副旅長魏長林陣亡,旅長梁忠甲以下8431人被俘。...

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Kim Sung
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Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by Kim Sung » 20 Jun 2010 14:19

WestSand wrote:This morning I went to our local bookshop and found a new Chinese book on this event named "the Chinese-Oriental Railroad and the Chinese-Oriental Railroad Inccident"(中东路与中东路事件). This book was published in March 2010.
This book published in mainland China this year crticizes the Soviet invasion in 1929 as imperialist expansion. We have to remember that the Chinese Communist Party in 1929 blamed the Chang Chieh-Shih's pro-imperialist, anti-Soviet policy for causing the incident. It's an irony of history.

Image

http://www.frelax.com/scdb/mulu/6/ZDLY342946c1.html

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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by YC Chen » 21 Jun 2010 11:11

Yes, it is! :D
Let's take a close look at this book: in the article "Chinese-Oriental Railroad Inccident and the arguement about two slogans in CPC"(page 282-297). This article represents the difficulty the Chinese reserchers meet in judging this event. At the end of the article, the authors wrote: "China and Russia should be friendly towards each other, instead of fighting against each other". And this article and the following one give a good discription of Chen Duxiu(陈独秀)'s action in the event. Very interesting!
In fact, the opinion "the Soviet Invasion was an imperialist expansion" appeared fairly early in PRC. As early as 1960s, some memoirs with this opinion appeared in a number of PRC's official "internal publicans".
It seems that neither side admits that it made mistake in 1929, so it is still difficult to judge who is right. However, as a Chinese, I admire the bravery of Manchurian army(at least some of them) in 1929 and hope China and Russia won't fight against each other again.

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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by oirob » 06 Aug 2010 08:23

Press Photo of Chinese Cavalry at Manchouli, Manchuria in 1929:
(see discription on the second picture; source ebay dixie_auctions)
393903536_o[1].jpg
393903579_o[1].jpg
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Peter H
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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by Peter H » 16 Feb 2011 10:52

Same source,another press photo released from 1929 mentioning the clash and showing Soviet troops.
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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by AVV » 16 Feb 2011 10:57

Hello!
Peter H wrote:Same source,another press photo released from 1929 mentioning the clash and showing Soviet troops.
Their MGs seem to be in position for AA fire.

Best regards, Aleks

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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by Nie-junmen » 07 Apr 2011 17:47

Have anybody photos of old Laha-Susu (Tongjiang) and Fugdin (Fukejin)?

Pics of "Dongyi" being captured by Soviet Amur Flotilla:
Image
Image

Any pics of old Laha-susu and Fugdin & Chinese men-of-war of Sungari Flotilla are highly appreciated!

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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by YC Chen » 08 Apr 2011 04:44

Wow, wonderful photos!
Was "Dongyi" the improvised gunboat used by Manchurian navy in the battle of Sanjiangkou? I have never seen any photo of it as it wasn't a standard warship. Thanks!

As for old photos, I must say they are very rare. Tongjiang-"同江"? What is the Chinese for "Fukejin"? Maybe I can find something.

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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by Nie-junmen » 08 Apr 2011 19:53

YC Chen wrote:Wow, wonderful photos!
Was "Dongyi" the improvised gunboat used by Manchurian navy in the battle of Sanjiangkou? I have never seen any photo of it as it wasn't a standard warship. Thanks!
Not at all. I have also a pic of "Dongyi" before being enlisted in the 1st river defence squad of Dongbei. I will try to find it.
As for old photos, I must say they are very rare. Tongjiang-"同江"? What is the Chinese for "Fukejin"? Maybe I can find something.
Tongjiang is so and the old name of it Laha-susu 拉哈苏苏. Fukejin is 富锦 and had another old name of Fugdin (Laha-susu and Fugdin are both of Nanai origin).

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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by YC Chen » 10 Apr 2011 12:35

Hmm... I must say photos from Manchukuo period are rare, and photos from earlier period are very, very rare.
Did a search on the Internet and only found this(I don't think you'll be interested in it):
http://book.kongfz.com/6256/75346387/
I'm sure that there must be something interesting in local museums and cultural intstitutes, but I'm unable to access them-I live in Nanking, both Laha-susu and Fukejin are too far away...

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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by YC Chen » 10 Apr 2011 13:12

I looked for old photos in "Selected History materials of Fujin"(富锦文史资料选辑) series but found nothing interesting. However, I found two interesting little article on the border clash. I'm not sure if you will like to see them.
P.S. I remember Shen Honglie, the commander of Manchuria fleet, temporarily mounted two 4.7-inch naval gun on "Dongyi". But in your photo, there are only Hotchkiss 37mm guns and Maxim(or Browning? can't see clearly) machine guns. Why?

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Re: Sino-Soviet Border Clash 1929

Post by Nie-junmen » 24 Jun 2011 22:38

YC Chen wrote:I looked for old photos in "Selected History materials of Fujin"(富锦文史资料选辑) series but found nothing interesting. However, I found two interesting little article on the border clash. I'm not sure if you will like to see them.
P.S. I remember Shen Honglie, the commander of Manchuria fleet, temporarily mounted two 4.7-inch naval gun on "Dongyi". But in your photo, there are only Hotchkiss 37mm guns and Maxim(or Browning? can't see clearly) machine guns. Why?
It is a pic taken immediately after the capture of "Dongyi", so no amendments were performed by Soviet marines.

There really was info from Chinese side that "Dongyi" was much stronger but really it turned to be false reports. Probably he must equip the ship with 2 x 120 mm. guns but the money were spent for other purposes. The same was in 1894 when the official report of Haijun Yamen stated that all guns on "Dingyuan" and "Zhenyuan" were replaced with QF guns, but all pics of the wartime demonstrated old non-QF guns on those ships.

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