Need ID Chinese artillery

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Yang
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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by Yang » 15 Apr 2023 14:57

Sturm78 wrote:
15 Apr 2023 09:39
Yang wrote
Type 20?
Not very sure.
A mortar modeled after Mortier Brandt de 81mm Mle 27/31,but expand the caliber to 82 mm.It was the main artillery of China in the 1930s and 1940s.
Ummhhh... I am not sure. I have this image labeled as a Chinese Type 20 mortar and I can see some differencies.
One of the two can not be a Type 20....
Do you know if China manufactured any other model of 82mm mortar in 1920-1930-1940s?

Thank you for your addtional images

Sturm78
Well......
There are indeed other styles available.From 81mm to 84mm.But the main reason for the differences between them is that the technical standards and processing capabilities of different arms factories are different.The earliest 80mm medium-sized mortar production was in Shenyang in 1922.Afterwards, many military factories controlled by warlords in Shanghai, Shandong, Sichuan, Shanxi, and other places began to self manufacture 80mm mortars.And basically, there are only written records, and no pictures or physical objects have been passed down.

Yang

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 17 Apr 2023 20:29

Thank you, Yang

Regards
Sturm78

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by nuyt » 23 Apr 2023 22:29

Yang wrote:
12 Apr 2023 04:25

Image
Dear Yang,
This is the 88mm field gun sold by Rheinmetall/Solothurn to China (and then locally produced in small numbers), right? Where can this gun be found presently?
Thanks
Nuyt

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by Yang » 25 Apr 2023 13:51

nuyt wrote:
23 Apr 2023 22:29
Yang wrote:
12 Apr 2023 04:25

Image
Dear Yang,
This is the 88mm field gun sold by Rheinmetall/Solothurn to China (and then locally produced in small numbers), right? Where can this gun be found presently?
Thanks
Nuyt
emmm.....In fact, I did not find a similar parameter design in Solothurn's products.I prefer this artillery made by a foreign team after absorbing the design concept of Solothurn products.Just like type16, a 105mm mountain gun.These two types of artillery are now preserved in the Military Museum of the Chinese People's Revolution in Beijing.

Yang

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by nuyt » 25 Apr 2023 15:01

Thanks
What data/specs do you have for this gun in Beijing?
88mm L30 or L31?
range?
weight of shell?
boxtrail?
thanks

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Yang
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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by Yang » 26 Apr 2023 06:27

nuyt wrote:
25 Apr 2023 15:01
Thanks
What data/specs do you have for this gun in Beijing?
88mm L30 or L31?
range?
weight of shell?
boxtrail?
thanks
There are some basic data on the display of this artillery.
Image

Range:10500 m
Combat weight:1360 kg
Initial velocity:525 m/s
And according to some historical records,
88mm L31
Weight of shell:HE 9 kg
Gun Length:2.75 m
Barrel weight: 386 kg

Yang

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by nuyt » 27 Apr 2023 18:36

Many thanks, Yang!
Much appreciated :)

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by nuyt » 27 Apr 2023 18:47

So more or less the same specs as the Rheinmetall 88mm L31, info from Alfred Muther:
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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by Yang » 28 Apr 2023 03:52

nuyt wrote:
27 Apr 2023 18:47
So more or less the same specs as the Rheinmetall 88mm L31, info from Alfred Muther:
Rheinmetall's products during World War I?
Interesting!
I have seen rumors like this before,it is mentioned that Yan Xishan was inspired by Zhang Zuolin's 77mm field gun to propose the development of such a cannon.And Zhang Zuolin's 77mm field gun technology originated from the Austro Hungarian Empire,the FeldkanoneM18.This looks like Central Powers' artillery civil war.

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by nuyt » 28 Apr 2023 08:43

The 88mm was a real WW1 weapon made by Rheinmetall and briefly used in an experimental way on the Western Front (all guns destroyed). It was later sold to China desguised as Solothurn and built there.
The 77mm field gun made by Mukden Arsenal was basically the Austrian Böhler 77mm M18, built by Böhler staff and machinery at Mukden (Böhler corporate history book) after 1922.
Two completely different weapons.
Yes, all big arms manufacturers were active in the huge Chinese market, especially the German/Austrian ones :)
And there were plenty of WW1 surplus weapons on the second hand market.

BTW do you have more details on the 15cm howitzer in Guangzhou? Markings on the weapon? Dates?
Thanks!

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by Yang » 28 Apr 2023 12:15

nuyt wrote:
28 Apr 2023 08:43
The 88mm was a real WW1 weapon made by Rheinmetall and briefly used in an experimental way on the Western Front (all guns destroyed). It was later sold to China desguised as Solothurn and built there.
The 77mm field gun made by Mukden Arsenal was basically the Austrian Böhler 77mm M18, built by Böhler staff and machinery at Mukden (Böhler corporate history book) after 1922.
Two completely different weapons.
Yes, all big arms manufacturers were active in the huge Chinese market, especially the German/Austrian ones :)
And there were plenty of WW1 surplus weapons on the second hand market.

BTW do you have more details on the 15cm howitzer in Guangzhou? Markings on the weapon? Dates?
Thanks!
15cm howitzer in Guangzhou? I'm not sure which one you're talking about.Do you have any photos, specific models, or some historical background about this artillery? If so, I think I might be able to find some information.

Yang

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by nuyt » 28 Apr 2023 12:17

Apologies, I meant Nanjing, picture on last page.

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by Yang » 28 Apr 2023 13:56

nuyt wrote:
28 Apr 2023 12:17
Apologies, I meant Nanjing, picture on last page.
Oh, you mean the 150 mm howitzer in the university museum over there in Nanjing? Personally, I think this artillery is a growth version of the Sfh13 in history.

Range:9600 m or 11000 m?(Some think so)
Combat weight:2680 kg(not sure)
Initial velocity:436 m/s
Weight of shell:HE 44 kg/36kg
Barrel length:2.53m
Maximum elevation: 65°
Minimum depression:-5°

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by nuyt » 28 Apr 2023 14:49

Thanks! Good info, anything on when built, where and by whom? Markings in the breech block?
Greetings,
Nuyt

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Re: Need ID Chinese artillery

Post by nuyt » 28 Apr 2023 15:00

Yang wrote:
12 Apr 2023 04:25
Or 150 mm howitzer, no name, only produced two samples.The only remaining one is preserved in the Arms Museum of Nanjing University of Science and Technology.
Image
The specs you give are better than the original sfH 13 by Krupp when it comes to elevation and range. Nevertheless, the Nanjing howitzer appears to still have the box trail carriage and, judging by the barrel, it was likely based on the sFH13 lang or L17 sub type. Better range may have been due to higher fixing point of the weapon on the barrel? Or better ammo? Or a combination?

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