Sid Guttridge wrote: ↑
24 May 2021 11:30
You ask "Why the Japanese presence in China mattered?
" Apart from anything else, it matters because everything we are discussing here related to WWII is contingent on the Japanese Army having invaded China.
You ask, "Are you going to tell me just because the US forces were present in Iraq or Afghanistan, any civilians killed by ISIS/Taliban is due to the US presence in their countries and thus should be justified / counted as American atrocity?
" So you are drawing a parallel between Japanese activities in China with US activities in Iraq? Tell us more.....
There is an interesting article giving what appears to be a worst case against the Japanese opium policy in China. Not a citable source, but a beginners guide to the accusations: https://historyofyesterday.com/how-impe ... 3f31fc3979
You ask, "Don’t you know the Japanese paid a premium salary in the 1930s to attract laborers from Northern China to Manchuria. Millions of Chinese migrated to Manchuria under that incentive. If the Japanese policy is to weaken the local people, why they wanted to pay a premium salary to encourage more Chinese to their occupied territory?
" To use them as cheap labour for themselves, like any other colonial power.
You post, "In China, it’s always been called Nanking Massacre. Only in the English world it’s sometime been referred to Rape of Nanking and I imaged that’s largely because of Iris Chang’s book.
" So? Call it whatever you want. Neither make it a remotely "decent" Japanese activity. (The earliest reference I found on the internet to the "Rape of Nanking" was in the USA in 1943.)
You post, "Yes Lewis Smythe did believe his figures were underestimated.
" Common ground!
You post, "Unfortunately for all the ChiCom fan boys his belief is wrong.
" I think you may be on the wrong site for "ChiCom fan boys". AHF is home to a small number of refugee Waffen-SS groupies, certainly, but I have yet to encounter any ChiCom fans here.
You post, "Professor Zhang, Lianhong from Nanjing Normal University organized a full scale carpet survey in Jiangning (Kiangning) in 2006 and found the death toll was 7,361 about 20% less than Smythe’s result in the same area.
" So, some 70 years after the event? I bet there was a lot more modelling than survey! Tell us more. (That would presumably be the ChiCom Nanjing Normal University run by the Communist Chinese state?)
You post, "So you do agree the Chinese governments (Both National and Communist) treated her citizens less humane than the Japaneses?
" Where did I say that? Did they conduct biological warfare experiments on them?
You posted, ".....the most decent force in the Sino-Japanese conflicts is indeed the Japanese.
" I merely pointed out that if you really think that "the most decent force" is one that conducted the rapes and massacres in Nanjing/Nanking, tested biological weapons on Chinese civilians and for 40 years encouraged the addiction to opium of occupied China, then you are setting the bar remarkably low for decency.
What do you mean WWII Japanese Army invaded China?
WWII started in 1939. When did the so called Japanese invasion take place?
I don’t see much difference of Japanese presence in China vs. US presence in the Philippines at about the same time. Not so much difference than the US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan either in the 2000s.
Not a citable source? Then why the heck you posted here? Wasting time?
The point is not to tell you to use them as cheap labor like any other colonial power. The point is you can not drug them and at the same time use them as cheap labor. These are two conflicted goals. You can adopt either one, but NOT both. It probably fits a seven-year old’s mind but not senior Japanese policy makers’ mind.
I have already said, compared to whatever the Chinese Nationalists and Communists did to their own citizens, Nanking incident is almost nothing.
No ChiCom fan boys?
This thread alone has proved their existence.
What do you want to know more about Zhang, Lianhong’s work?
http://news.sina.com.cn/s/2006-09-23/13 ... 366s.shtml
Zhang said Due to the low mobility of the rural population, the difference between this survey result and the actual death toll is negligible.
This is no modeling but actual survey. The group went to Jiangning and knocked doors one family after another.
At 2006, there were still sizable witnesses of Nanking incident. Family members of survivors will also share stories told by their parents or grand parents.
Yes, it was run by the ChiCom Nanjing Normal University supported by the Communist Chinese state.
The communists also wanted some solid evidence to support their 300K victim claim. But the evidence they found was against their claim and served as a support to Lewis Smythe’s survey. Isn’t that Ironic?
Well you acknowledged the National government killed way more Chinese civilians in Yellow river flooding than Nanking incident. And you also acknowledged the ChiCom regime conducting live organ harvest after some 7-8 decades of unit 731. That’s solid proof of Japanese decency.