WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

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Robert24
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WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 10 Nov 2013 02:34

Good evening,

I understand the majority of WW2 Chinese Divisions were not National Revolutionary Army (NRA) units, rather they belong to various factions.

Are there resources (two listed below) that detail the allegiances of the Divisions?

This is what I can find:

-This books provides information on CCP Divisions and their higher Army formations
Whintson, The Chinese High Command, 1973, Praeger Publishers

-This resource identifies the Divisions that received German training, but I do not believe these are all the Central Army Divisions.
German-trained divisions in the National Revolutionary Army, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-tra ... onary_Army

This book has numerous OOBs, but lists all Chinese Divisions by numerical designation, not allegiance.
Hsu Long-hsuen and Chang Ming-kai, History of The Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) 2nd Ed., 1971, Taipei, Taiwan Republic of China

Any information is appreciated. :D

Robert

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Jerry Asher » 11 Nov 2013 04:26

Good evening Robert: Allegiances shift over time: the US and British Empire were fortunate not to have this rise to a significant concern. Even then, when Japan was in first flush in early 1942, Indian Army units were more unsettled than the British wanted, and the nuances among some Australian officers were tense. For China it was never so simple. There were Chinese allied to the Japanese almost from the coup in the Manchurian Provinces, and Inner Mongolia from 1931 on.

Let me start with the first cohort of divisions under the German scheme. Take with a grain of salt and feel free to offer corrections, I am much better on ships than divisions.
The divisions were 2nd 11th 14th, 25th, 36th, 57th 67th , 87th and Training.

2nd cohort: 3rd, 4th, 6th, 9th, 10th, 27th, 80th, 83rd, 88th and 89th'

these were the core maneuver units--not all were NRA.

In theory the entire 29th Army which contested Hebei Province in July 1937 was not NRA nor participate in the German scheme.
I would argue that it was professional and its 38th Division stood its ground.

In general into June 1938. cooperation was very good, although after September 1937 and May 1938 Mao did what he could to avoid the overexposure of CCP Divisions. Jiang after Changsha in 1939 sought to reinvigorate combat and was particularly successful during the 1939-40 winter offensive. After that there was general agreement that pitched battles did not yield strategic gain, Mao was uncomfortable with Zhu De's 100 Regiment Offensive the following year, feeling the cost wasn't worth the gain.

Finally may I suggest something along the lines that China,s fight was to rid itself of Japanese aggression, not anything else. The term they use "War of Resistance," maybe a better guide than WW2.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by fredleander » 11 Nov 2013 08:41

Interesting topic.

Fred
River Wide, Ocean Deep - a book about Operation Sealion:
https://www.fredleander.com
Saving MacArthur - an eight-book series on the Pacific War:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D3 ... rw_dp_labf

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by metro » 13 Nov 2013 06:19

the Provincial Armies and the CCP's Eight Route Army were incorporated into the NRA during the anti-Japanese war.

think the Commanders would be an indication of the Divisions' allegiances.

This books provides information on CCP Divisions and their higher Army formations
Whintson, The Chinese High Command, 1973, Praeger Publishers >>
could you list out the CCP Divisions during the anti-Japanese war ? the CCP claimed to have 1 million regular troops during the war.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Jerry Asher » 13 Nov 2013 06:38

Hi Robert: Iv'e never done an OOB for Chinese Divisions but came across these details on book Shandong Province.
The 115th Division is CCP from its inception and does not ever shift allegiance. (Comment is that it is one of 3 CCP Divisions.
Han Fuju's personal guard becomes central government, ( Not sure if NRA) becomes the New 4th Division and then changes allegiance to Wang Jingwei. Hope this helps.

Robert I'd take Division nomenclature with a grain of salt. More often than not find Army is the primary maneuver element, with "Divisions," akin to American regiments. On the one hand people rich, weapon poor, and very fragmented.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 01 Dec 2013 04:59

Jerry,
Thank you for the response.
Jerry Asher wrote:... Let me start with the first cohort of divisions under the German scheme. Take with a grain of salt and feel free to offer corrections, I am much better on ships than divisions. The divisions were 2nd 11th 14th, 25th, 36th, 57th 67th , 87th and Training. 2nd cohort: 3rd, 4th, 6th, 9th, 10th, 27th, 80th, 83rd, 88th and 89th' ... these were the core maneuver units--not all were NRA...
Do you know what Divisions were not NRA?
Jerry Asher wrote:... In theory the entire 29th Army which contested Hebei Province in July 1937 was not NRA nor participate in the German scheme. I would argue that it was professional and its 38th Division stood its ground...
I started my research with the 29th Army; you know I found some references listed it as the "29th Route Army." This is what I found:

The 29th troops may have been drawn from the Northwestern provinces of China, I'll refer to them as the Chahar Faction. The leader of the 29th Route Army was General Song Zheyuan; he seems to have been recently reinstalled as the Chairman of Chahar Province. The 29th may have been referred to as the Northwestern Army. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_Zheyuan

Their Divisions were big, seems General Song Zheyuan kept them that way as he was limited to a specific number of units, so he just increased the number of troops and regiments in each Division.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_ ... ng-Tianjin

29th Route Army
Commander: General Sung Che-yuan
Deputy: General Tung Lin-keh

37th Division (15750 men) - General Feng Chih-an
Special Operations Regiment (a HQ reserve formation)
109th Brigade
110th Brigade
111th Brigade
Independent 35th Brigade

38th Division (15400 men) - General Chang Tse-chung
Special Operations Regiment
112th Brigade
113th Brigade
114th Brigade
Independent 26th Brigade

132nd Division (15000 men) - General Chao Teng-yu
Special Operations Regiment
1st Brigade
2nd Brigade
Independent 27th Brigade
Independent 28th Brigade

143rd Division (in Chahar) (15100 men) - General Liu Ju-ming
Special Operations Regiment
1st Brigade
2nd Brigade
Independent 29th Brigade
Independent 31st Brigade
Security Brigade

9th Cavalry Division (3000 men) - ?
1st Brigade
2nd Brigade

Independent 13th Cavalry Brigade (1500 men)
Hopei Peace Preservation Force (Peiwan, 2500 men)
Independent 39th Brigade (3500 men)
Independent 40th Brigade (3400 men)

53rd Corps - General Wan Fulin

The 29th Route Army was broken by December 1937. The Remaining forces were delegated to guerrilla combat in the mountainous regions at the borders of Henan and Shanxi province by February 1938. Sung Che-yuan himself died before the war was over. Looking over Chinese OOBs from latter on in the war it looks like a 29th Army was established, but I don't think it was a Chahar Faction formation. When the Japanese destroyed the 29th Route Army that formation never came back.

Jerry Asher wrote:... In general into June 1938. cooperation was very good, although after September 1937 and May 1938 Mao did what he could to avoid the overexposure of CCP Divisions. Jiang after Changsha in 1939 sought to reinvigorate combat and was particularly successful during the 1939-40 winter offensive. After that there was general agreement that pitched battles did not yield strategic gain, Mao was uncomfortable with Zhu De's 100 Regiment Offensive the following year, feeling the cost wasn't worth the gain. ...
I have a great reference on the Red Army I am looking over now. I'll try to compile a OOB and post it here... but I seem to lack info on all 100 regiments.
Jerry Asher wrote:... Finally may I suggest something along the lines that China,s fight was to rid itself of Japanese aggression, not anything else. The term they use "War of Resistance," maybe a better guide than WW2.
Yes, I agree. "War of Resistance" is much more accurate. Although I seem to see "Anti-Fascist War" used often. That captures the fact that China was engaged with the Axis foe long before the Western Allies. I'll use War of Resistance in the future.

More to come on this....

Robert

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Robert24
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 01 Dec 2013 05:02

metro wrote:... could you list out the CCP Divisions during the anti-Japanese war ? the CCP claimed to have 1 million regular troops during the war.
Will do, give me week or so... Robert

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 01 Dec 2013 05:04

Jerry Asher wrote:... Han Fuju's personal guard becomes central government, ( Not sure if NRA) becomes the New 4th Division and then changes allegiance to Wang Jingwei. Hope this helps...
Yes it does help, good to know.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 03 Dec 2013 04:59

A table that presents the composition of Chinese army in 1941... includes Central, Regional and Communist strengths and troop quality. Found in "A Military History of China: 1924 to 1949," by F.F. Liu.
comp ch army 41.jpg
Another item I ran across was a lecture that presented Chinese troop strengths organized by loyalties to Chiang. Richard B. Frank: China's "War of Resistance" 1937-42 - January 24 2013. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzGzbP0sKUE
ch armies 37.jpg
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 06 Dec 2013 05:59

Shanxi Faction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanxi_clique
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_Xishan
Hsu Long-hsuen and Chang Ming-kai, History of The Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) 1971, Taipei, Taiwan Republic of China (Hsu 1971)

The faction was led by General Yan Xishan and was significantly weakened by the Japanese invasion which occupied most of their base province. After losing the provincial capital, Taiyuan, he relocated his headquarters to Linfen, a remote southwest corner of the province. By 1938, Yan's tactics evolved to resemble the guerrilla warfare practiced by Communist forces in other parts of Shanxi, and his defenses featured coordination with Communist forces and with regular divisions of the Nationalist army.

2nd War Area - General Yan Xishan, Shanxi and parts of Shenxi (after first part of September 1937)

-66th Div. - Tu Chun-yi
-94th Div. - Chu Huai-ping
-17th Div. - Wu Shih-ming

-19th Corps - Wang Ching-kuo
--2nd Separate Brigade - Fang Ke-yu
--215th Bde. - Tu Kun
--72nd Div. - Tuan Shu-hua

-1st Cavalry Corps - Chao Cheng-shou
--1st Cavalry Div. - Pen Yu-pin
--2nd Cavalry Div. - Sun Chang-sheng

-15th Corps - Liu Mao-en
--64th Div- Wu Ting-lin
--65th Div- Liu Mao-en(concurrent)

-Advance Force Commander - Ma Chan-shan
--6th Cavalry Div. - Liu Kuei-wu

-2nd Cavalry Corps - Ho Chu-kuo
--3rd Cavalry Div. - Hsu Liang

-3rd Corps - Tseng Wan-chung
--7th Div. - Li Shih-lung
-12th Div. - Tang Huai-yuan

-14th Army - Feng Chin-tsai
--42nd Div. - Liu Yen-piao
--169th Div. - Wu Shih-ming

6th Army Group – Gen. Yang Aiyuan, deputy Sun Chu

-New 2nd Div. - Chin Hsien-chang

-33rd Corps - Sun Chu
--3rd Separate Bde. - Chang Chi-yu
--8th Separate Bde. - ?
--73rd Div. - Liu Feng-pin

-34th Corps - Yang Cheng-yuan
--196th Bde. - Chiang Yu-chen
--203rd Bde. - Liang Chien-tang
--71st Div. - Kuao Tsung-fen

7th Army Group - Fu Tso-yi

-New 2nd Bde. - An Hua-ting
-New 6th Bde. - Wang Tse-hsiu
-New 2nd Cavalry Bde. - Shih yu-shan

-35th Corps - Fu Tso-yi
--218th Bde. - Tung Chu-wu
--211th Bde. - Sun Lan-feng
--205th Bde. - Tien Shu-mei

-61st Corps - Chen Chang-Chih
--200th Bde. - Liu Tan-fu
--7th Separate Bde. - Man Yen-shou
--101st Div. - Li Chu-kung

-17th Corps - Kao Kuei-tse 84th Division - Kao Kuei-tse (concurrent)
--21st Div. - Li Hsien-chou

-6th Cavalry Corps - Men Ping-yueh
--7th Cavalry Div. - Men Ping-yueh (concurrent)
--1st Temporary Cavalry Div. - Feng Piao

14th Army Group - Wei Li-huang

-85th Div. - Chen Tieh
-5th Separate Bde. - Cheng Ting-chen

-14th Corps - Li Mo-an
--30th Div. - Chang Chin-chao
--31st Div. - Chih Feng-cheng
--44th Separate Bde. - Chang Hua-tang

-9th Corps - Hu Meng-lin
--47th Div. - Pei Chang-hui
--54th Div. - Liu Chia-chi

As the war dragged on General Yan Xishan held meetings with the Japanese tried to negotiate Yan's defection, the negotiations went nowhere. In 1944 fighting with communists erupted. At the end of the war Yen used Japanese troops to continue the fighting with communists.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 07 Dec 2013 06:23

General Yan Xishan 1937
yan.jpg
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 07 Dec 2013 21:25

Chinese Communist Party (CCP)

There is a wealth of information in The Chinese High Command, by William Whitson. I found a detailed etymology of CCP units from their formation through the Korean war. The War of Resistance OOB is so detailed it lists the growth of the PLA through the entire war, so I've decided to offer three OOBs for the CCP. Today I've finished the first and presented it here.

A note to all readers: I don't want any of these OOBs to be the definitive source, I am merely embarked on a personal project to identify (as well as this amature can) the alliances of Chinese Divisions that fought in the War of Resistance. I am endeavoring to include cited resources so this data can be further scrutinized.

8th Route Army - Chu Teh, Shansi province (1937 to 1941)

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/h/Chinese ... Battle.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Route_Army
Whintson, The Chinese High Command, 1973, Praeger Publishers
Guillermaz, A History of the Chinese Communist Party 1921-1949, 1972, Random House, Inc.

Commanded by Chu Teh, the 8th Route Army grew, by my account, during the 1937-41 period to well 150,000 troops. The 8th Route's Deputy was P'eng Te-huai, who was influential and engaged in most of the operations. During the period of the United Front, when the Communist forces were nominally part of the National Army, the Nationalist designated the 8th Route Army as the 18th Army Group; with an authorized its strength at 40,000 men, a limit that was ignored.

Because of the limit, the units were packed with men and materials so the original three divisions resembled Armies by the end of 1945.

One regiment from each of its divisions was retained at Yenan to protect the Communist base there.
yenan op area1.jpg
115 Division, 1937- 1940 (12,000 in 1937), Lin Piao:
-343 Bde
--685 Rgt
--686 Rgt
--Ind Rgt
-344 Bde
--687 Rgt
--688 Rgt
--689 Rgt

120 Division, 1937-41 (10,000 in 1937), Ho Lung, Northwest Shansi province:

Ho Lung Faction (Has as its roots in the NRA 15th Independent Division in 1927, become the Red 2nd Corps in 1934 and then the 120th Division by 1937)
-Shansi-Suiyuan MR
-358 Bde
--714 Rgt
--715 Rgt
--716 Rgt
-1 Subdistrict Bde
-3 Subdistrict Bde
-4 Subdistrict Bde
-8 Subdistrict Bde
-Tachingshan Detachment

Wang Chen Faction (Was the Red 6th Corps, joined the 120th by 1937)
-Shen-Kansu-Ninghsia MR
-359 Bde
--717 Rgt
--718 Rgt
--719 Rgt
-5 Subdistrict Bde

NW Shensi Faction - Hsi Chung-hsun
-5 Subdistrict Bde

Other Factions (formed in 1937?)
-New 4th Bde
--16 Rgt


129 Div,1937-1938 (12,000-15,000 in 1937), Liu Po-ch'eng:
-385 Bde
--769 Rgt
--770 Rgt
-386 Bde
--771 Rgt
--772 Rgt
-343 Bde
--686 Rgt
--685 Rgt

New 4th Army - Ye T'ing, Fukien and Kiangsi provinces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Fourth_Army
http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/h/Chinese ... Battle.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Ting
Whintson, The Chinese High Command, 1973, Praeger Publishers (Whintson 1973)

The New 4th Army was established on December 25, 1937 in Hankou, moving to Nanchang on January 6, 1938. The initial structure was 4 detachments and 1 battalion; numbered roughly 10,000 troops. Its authorized strength under the United Front was 12,000 troops, a limit ignored.

The Army was devastated by intra-United Front fighting with the Nationalist, but reconstituted by the CCP.

The main Nationalist-CCP battle is know as the New 4th Army (or South Anhwei) Incident. The history of the event is that after the New 4th Army was ordered north of the Yellow River by Chiang in 1940, the 4th's slow action resulted in clashes with the Nationalists, which ended of effective cooperation between the Nationalists and the CCP. The 4th New Army commander Ye T'ing was captured and only 2,000 New 4th Army personnel survived. Ye T'ing was imprisoned till 1946. The unit was reformed by the CCP at Yench'eng; Chen Yi was assigned as the commander.

1937 - late 1940 (before the New 4th Army Incident) 7,000 growing to 9,000 troops:

1 Detachment (Det)
-2 Regiment (Rgt)

2 Det
-3 Rgt
-4 Rgt

3 Det
-5 Rgt
-6 Rgt

Oyuwan Col

6 Det

4 Det
-7 Rgt
-8 Rgt
-9 Rgt

5 Det

Shantung Col (joined in late 1938 with 6,000 troops)
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 08 Dec 2013 21:24

Another look at the composition of the NRA. Also, regional replacement information.

http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/K/u/Kuomint ... Battle.htm
Nationalist Replacements and NRA composition.jpg
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by sjchan » 12 Dec 2013 15:54

I think some time ago I posted this information (forgot which year to which it applies)

CC = Chiang core troops
CO = Chiang (incorporated from misc. sources but basically loyal to Chiang)
KW = Kwangsi
KT = Kwangtung
HU = Hunan
HO = Honan
NW = Northwest Army
NE = Northeast Army
SE = Shensi
SA = Shansi
SZ = Szechuan
AN = Anhwei
YU = Yunnan
KE = Kweichow
PU = Puppet troops gone over to the Nationalist side
O = Others

1D CC
2D CC
3D CC
4D CC
5D CO
6D CO
7D YU
8D CC
9D CC
10D CC
11D CC
12D YU
13D CO
14D CC
15D HU
16D HU
17D SE
18D CC
19D HU
20D NW
21D CC
22D NW
23D CC
24D CC
25D CC
26D SZ
27D NW
28D CC
29D NW
30D NW
31D NW
32D NW
33D CC
34D SE
35D NW
36D CC
37D NW
38D NW
39D NW
40D CC
41D CO
42D SE
43D CC
44D CO
45D CC
46D CC
47D CO
48D CO
49D CC
50D CC
51D CC
52D CC
53D CC
54D CO
55D CC
56D AN
57D CC
58D CC
59D CO
60D CC
61D CC
62D HU
63D CC
64D HO
65D HO
66D SA
67D CC
68D SA
69D SA
70D SA
71D SA
72D SA
73D SA
74D NW
75D CO
76D CO
77D CC
78D CC
79D CC
80D CC
81D NW
82D CO
83D CC
84D SE
85D CC
86D SE
87D CC
88D CC
89D CC
90D CO
91D CC
92D CC
93D CC
94D CC
95D CC
96D CC
97D CC
98D CC
99D CC
100D NW
101D SA
102D KE
103D CC
104D SZ
105D NE
106D NW
107D HU
108D NE
109D CC
110D CC
111D NE
112D NE
113D NE
114D NE
116D NE
117D CC
118D CC
119D NW
121D CC
122D SZ
123D SZ
124D SZ
125D SZ
126D SZ
127D SZ
128D SE
130D NE
131D KW
132D NW
133D SZ
134D SZ
135D KW
136D SZ
137D SZ
138D KW
139D SA
140D CC
141D SA
142D SA
143D NW
144D SZ
145D SZ
146D SZ
147D SZ
148D SZ
149D SZ
150D SZ
151D KT
152D KT
153D KT
154D KT
155D KT
156D KT
157D KT
158D KT
159D KT
160D KT
161D SZ
162D SZ
163D SZ
164D SZ
165D CO
166D CC
167D CC
168D NW
169D SE
170D KW
171D KW
172D KW
173D KW
174D KW
175D KW
176D KW
177D SE
178D SZ
179D NW
180D NW
181D NW
182D YU
183D YU
184D YU
185D CC
186D KW
187D KW
188D KW
189D KW
190D CC
191D CC
192D HU
193D CC
194D CC
195D CC
196D CC
197D CC
198D HU
199D CC
200D CC
1 Honor D CC
R1D CC (1st Reserve Division)
R2D CC
R3D CC
R4D CC
R5D CC
R6D CC
R7D CC
R8D CC
R9D CC
R10D CC
R11D CC
C1D SA (1st Cavalry Division)
C2D SA
C3D NE
C4D ?
C5D NW
C6D NE
C7D ?
C8D ?
C9D NW
NC3D PU (New 3rd Cavalry Division)
NC4D PU
NC5D PU
N1D CC (New 1st Division)
N2D ?
N3D O
N4D NW
N5D ?
N6D NW
N7D SZ
N8D KE
N9D SZ
N10D YU
N11D YU
N12D YU
N13D SZ
N14D SZ
N15D SZ
N16D SZ
N17D SZ
N18D SZ
N19D KW
N20D PU
N21D ?
N22D CC
N23D CC
N24D CO
N25D SZ
N26D CC
N27D CO
N28D CC
N29D CC
N30D ?
N31D SA
N32D SA
N33D CC
N34D CC
N35D ?
N36D PU
N37D SZ
P1D ? (1st Provisional Division)
P2D ?
P3D O
P4D O
P5D HU
P6D O
P7D CC
P8D CC
P9D NW
P10D PU
P11D PU
P12D PU
P13D O
P14D CC
P15D ?
P16D CC
P17D ?
P18D ?

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 13 Dec 2013 04:25

sjchan,
This is fantastic... Thank you for sharing.
Sorry to have missed your post before; were you able to glean this information from one source or did you use several?
Robert

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