WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

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Robert24
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 13 Dec 2013 04:28

sjchan,
What faction do you consider General Sung Che-yuan being a part of?
I assume General Yan Xishan is of the Shansi faction - correct?
Robert

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YC Chen
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by YC Chen » 13 Dec 2013 13:11

Impressive!!

Which year does this list apply to? Thanks!

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Robert24
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 17 Dec 2013 06:49

Hi YC Chen,
Thank you for the nice comment.
This applies to the 1937-38 years of the conflict. But, I can see continuing on with it, especially the Communists as I have a really good reference for those units.
I plan on working the New Guangxi or Sichuan Faction next - maybe after the Holidays here are over, lots going on now.
Robert

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 29 Dec 2013 19:24

Sichuan Faction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sichuan_clique

From 1927-1938 the Sichuan clique was in the hands of five warlords: Liu Xiang, Yang Sen, Liu Wenhui, Deng Xihou, and Tian Songyao. During the War of Resistance the Sichuans made large contributions to the Nationalist army.

The number of dead or injured Sichuan soldiers is estimated at 646,000. In the Battle of Shanghai, almost all 170,000 soldiers fell in battle, with only 2,000 managing to retreat to Hubei Province.

Three Sichuan generals of the National Revolutionary Army died during the war; Li Jiayu, Wang Mingzhang and Rao Guohua.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Xiang_(warlord)

At the beginning of the War of Resistance Liu Xiang lead the Sichuan 15th Army at the Battle of Shanghai and then the 23rd Army Group in the Battle of Nanking, and was made Commander in Chief of the River Defense Forces for the Yangtze River.

In January 1938, he ordered his armies of more than 100,000 soldiers out of Sichuan to fight against the Japanese. However Liu Xiang died on 20 January 1938 in Hankou, Hubei; some suspected he was poisoned by Chiang Kai-shek for conspiring with Shandong chairman Han Fuju to turn against Chiang.

Liu's death and the arrival of the central government in Chongqing in 1938 brought reforms that eventually put an end to the major warlord garrisons. The Sichuan faction broke up and a lot of Sichuan units turned their loyalties over to Chiang Kai-shek and became essentially Central army units and the province a major recruiting ground for the hard pressed Nationalist armies.

http://ww2-weapons.com/Orders-of-battle ... s-1939.htm

15th Army: Liu Xiang (at Shanghai 1937)
102nd Division - Po Hui-chang
103rd Division - Ho Chih-chung
53rd Division - li Yun-heng
23rd Division - Li Pi-fan

20th Corps - Yang Sen (at Shanghai 1937)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Sen_ ... 80%931977)
133rd Division - Yang Han-yu
134th Division - Yang Han-chung

57th Corps – Miao Cheng-liu (Yangtse River Left Bank Garrison Sector Dec 1937)
111th Division - Chang En-tuo
112th Division - Huo Shou-yi

24th Army - Liu Wenhui

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xihou
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_ ... _of_Xuzhou

22nd Army Group - Deng Xihou (Sun Cheng - acting) [from Sichuan at Xuzhou, March 1938]

41st Corps - Sun Cheng
122nd Division - Wang Min-chang
124th Division - Wang Shih-chun

45th Corps - Chen Ting-hsun
125th Division - Chen Ting-hsun (concurrent)
127th Division - Chen Li

366 Division (peace preservation unit?)
372 Division (peace preservation unit?)

104th Division - Wang Wen-yen

21st Corps: Liu Hsiang (at Nanking Dec 1937)
144th Division - Kuo Hsun-chi
145th Division -
146th Division -
147th Division -
148th Division -

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Robert24
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 30 Dec 2013 03:18

New Guangxi Faction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guangxi_clique
The New Guangxi clique was led by Generals Li Zongren, Huang Shaohong, and Bai Chongxi.

http://ww2-weapons.com/Orders-of-battle ... s-1939.htm
The 80,000 soldiers and 90,000 militia of the southern province of Guangxi were well-led, equipped and disciplined.

References for the following Guangxi forces:
-Terrence Co, Turning Point in China: The Battle of Kunlun Pass, 18-30 December 1939; World At War magazine, Oct-Nov 2012 issue.
-Hsu Long-hsuen and Chang Ming-kai, History of The Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945), 1971, Taipei, Taiwan Republic of China.

Guangxi HQ - Bai Chongxi, November 1939

-Kwangsi Pacification HQ Training Division

-Artillery Detachment

-New 3rd Division

-16th Army Group - Wei Yun-sun

--31st Corps - Wei Yun-sun, along Hsi River behind 46th Corps
---131st Division
---135th Division
---188th Division

--46th Corps - Ho Hsuan (18,000) along the Guangxi coast
---170th Division
---175th Division
---New 19th Division

--26th Army Group - Tsai Ting-kai, Yung River line in front of Nanning
---1st Sep. Inf. Rgt.
---2nd Sep. Inf. Rgt.
---3rd Sep. Inf. Rgt.
---4th Sep. Inf. Rgt.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by roberto machella » 03 Feb 2014 18:40

What are the divisions of the Muslim ?
What are the regions of the Nordwest Divisions ?
What are the regions of the Northeast Divisions ?
What are the divisions of Gansu and Ningxia Regions ?

Thanks!

Robert M.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Stephen_Rynerson » 05 Feb 2014 04:39

roberto machella wrote:What are the divisions of the Muslim ?
What are the regions of the Nordwest Divisions ?
What are the regions of the Northeast Divisions ?
What are the divisions of Gansu and Ningxia Regions ?

Thanks!

Robert M.
Robert, I'd recommend checking this book by Charles D. Pettibone for much of the information you're asking about: "The Organization and Order of Battle of Militaries in World War II: Vol. VIII - China": http://books.google.com/books?id=Ud6fkR ... &q&f=false

A substantial part of the book is viewable through that Google Books link above, so you can see if it's something you want to get a copy of.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by roberto machella » 05 Feb 2014 09:06

I own the book but does not give me the answers to my questions.
add:
which are regions of division "Puppet" ?
thanks
Roberto M.

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Robert24
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 19 Feb 2014 07:22

roberto machella wrote:What are the divisions of the Muslim ?
What are the regions of the Nordwest Divisions ?
What are the regions of the Northeast Divisions ?
What are the divisions of Gansu and Ningxia Regions ?
Very interesting, I have been pondering these questions also. This is what I think….
The Northeast armies seem to be the factions that retreated south from Manchuria and the northern most provinces as the Japanese occupied those areas in the early 1930’s.
The Northwest armies are those North and East of Shanxi. These include the Muslims.
The Muslims are an ethnic group in the North and East. The main faction was the Ma. I already have a list of Divisions, but not quite ready yet.
Off the top of my head, I don’t think I have much on Gansu and Ningxia.
I should find some time in the near future to continue my research and add more to this page. More later.
Robert

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by metro » 28 Feb 2014 07:13

Robert24 wrote:
roberto machella wrote:What are the divisions of the Muslim ?
What are the regions of the Nordwest Divisions ?
What are the regions of the Northeast Divisions ?
What are the divisions of Gansu and Ningxia Regions ?
Very interesting, I have been pondering these questions also. This is what I think….
The Northeast armies seem to be the factions that retreated south from Manchuria and the northern most provinces as the Japanese occupied those areas in the early 1930’s.
The Northwest armies are those North and East of Shanxi. These include the Muslims.
The Muslims are an ethnic group in the North and East. The main faction was the Ma. I already have a list of Divisions, but not quite ready yet.
Off the top of my head, I don’t think I have much on Gansu and Ningxia.
I should find some time in the near future to continue my research and add more to this page. More later.
Robert

the Northeast armies are the Manchuria Zhang Xueliang's troops, which were split into different units after the Xi'an incident.

the Northwest armies are the Feng Yuxiang's Guominjun. the KMT defeated them in the Central Plains war. after the defeat, they were absorbed into Zhang Xueliang's Army. they were later designated as Song Zheyuan's 29th Route Army.

think the Ma Clique controlled the Muslim Army and the territories of Qinghai, Gangsu and Ningxia.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by roberto machella » 01 Mar 2014 09:15

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post2_3741309_1.html

divsion Muslim
8 cavalry
5 cavalry
new 8 cavalry
35 division
100 diision
168 division
9 provisional
60 provisional
61 provisional

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Robert24
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 03 Nov 2014 01:32

Yunnan Faction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunnan_clique
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Yun

Long Yun seized control of the Yunnan clique in 1927 and re-aligned Yunnan under the Nationalist government, but maintained the province's autonomy. In 1938 Long was assigned commander of the 1st Army Group while maintaining his Chairmanship of the government of Yunnan.

98th Division was part of Frontier forces in the 1930's and transferred to the 54th Army in 9/37.

3 Divisions were formed in late 1937 (182, 183 and 184) with French arms and fought at the Battle of Xuzhou in May 1938:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_ ... uzhou#Army

60th Corps - Lu Han (Lu Han became Deputy Commander, 1st Army Group)
182nd Division - An En-fu
183rd Division - Kao Kyin-huai
184th Division - Chang Chung

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Robert24
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 03 Nov 2014 02:07

Ma Faction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_clique

The Ma Faction ruled the Chinese provinces of Qinghai, Gansu and Ningxia.

Ma units have a history of fighting the Kuomintang and then joining them. After the Northern Expedition the Ma Clique became members of the Kuomintang party, and their armies were renamed as Divisions of the National Revolutionary Army. The Ma Clique Ninghai Army under General Ma Qi was renamed the National Revolutionary Army 26th Division, and the Tungan Division under General Ma Zhongying was renamed the National Revolutionary Army 36th Division and eventually received some German training.

Ma General Ma Hongbin was assigned as commander of the 81st Army in 1937 and defeat the Japanese at the Battle of Wuyuan March-April 1940. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wuyuan#Units


Other units lead by Ma members:

Ma Biao, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_Biao_(general)
The Qinghai Chinese, Salar, Chinese Muslim, Dongxiang, and Tibetan troops were under the commander Ma Biao.
http://www.generals.dk/general/Ma_Biao/_/China.html
1937-08-XX – 1940-05-XX Commanding Officer 1st Provisional Cavalry Division
1940-05-XX – 1941-05-XX Commanding Officer 8th Cavalry Division
1941-05-XX – 1943-02-04 Deputy Commanding Officer 2nd Cavalry Army

http://niehorster.orbat.com/018_china/41_cha-00-000.htm

Manchuria Advanced Corps - Ma Chan-shan
82nd Corps - Ma Pu-fang
5th Cavalry Corps - Ma Pu-chung
17th Army Group - Ma Hung-pin
-81st Corps - Ma Hung-pin (concurrent)
-168th Division - Ma Hung-kuei

Combined from Dorn (1974) and Hsu and Chang (1971), http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/K/u/Kuomint ... Battle.htm

17 Army Group Ma Hung-pin Yinchuan

-11 Army Ma Tung-ching
--6 Provisional and
--31 Provisional Divisions
-81 Army Ma Hung-pin Anpei
--35 Division

-82 Army Ma Pu-fang
--100 Division
--New 8 Cavalry
--61 Provisional Division

-5 Cavalry Army Ma Pu-ching
--5 Cavalry and
--1 Provisional Cavalry Division

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Robert24
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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Robert24 » 03 Nov 2014 02:50

July 1937 National Revolutionary Army Divisions and their Allegiances

Abbreviation and Definition
CC- Chiang core troops, directly controlled by Chiang
C- Chiang, traditionally loyal to Chiang
CCP- Chinese Communist Party
HO- Honan
HP- Hopei, practically-autonomous regional troops
HU- Hunan
KE- Kweichow
KT- Kwangtung, semi-autonomous regional troops
KW- Kwangsi, autonomous regional troops
NE- Northeast Army, practically-autonomous regional troops
NW- Northwest Army
SA- Shansi, semi-autonomous regional troops
SE- Shensi
ST- Shantung, semi-autonomous regional troops
SZ- Szechuan, some degree of autonomous regional troops
YU- Yunnan, autonomous regional troops


Division, Allegiance and Notes
1 CC
2 CC Fully German trained
3 CC Partially German trained
4 CC Fully German trained
5 HP
6 CC Partially German trained
7 C
8 SA
9 CC Partially German trained
10 CC Fully German trained
11 CC Fully German trained
12 ST
13 C
14 CC Partially German trained
15 CC
16 CC
17 SE
18 CC
19 HU
20 NW
21 CC
22 NW
23 C
24 CC
25 CC Fully German trained
26 SA formally Ninghai Army
27 CC Fully German trained
28 CC
29 ST
30 CC
31 CC
32 NW
33 C
34 SE
35 C
36 CC Organized in 1932; Tungan 36th Division; Partially German trained
37 HP
38 SA
39 NW
40 C
41 CC
42 C
43 C
44 CC
45 C
46 CC
47 C
48 CC
49 CC
50 CC
51 CC
52 CC
53 CC
54 C
55 CC
56 CC
57 CC Fully German trained
58 CC
59 CC
60 CC
61 SA
62 HU
63 CC
64 C
65 HO
66 SA
67 CC Fully German trained
68 SA
69 SA
70 SA
71 HP
72 SA
73 SA
74 NW
75 C
76 C
77 CC
78 CC
79 CC
80 CC Fully German trained
81 NW
82 C
83 CC Fully German trained
84 SE
85 CC
86 SE
87 CC Partially German trained
88 CC Partially German trained
89 CC Fully German trained
90 CC
91 HP
92 CC
93 CC
94 CC
95 CC
96 CC
97 CC
98 CC
99 CC
100 NW
101 SA
102 CC
103 C
104 SZ
105 NE
106 HP
107 NE
108 NE
109 NE
110 NE
111 NE
112 NE
113 NE
114 NE
115 CCP
116 NE
117 NE
118 NE
119 NE
120 CCP
121 CC
122 SZ
123 SZ
124 SZ
125 SZ
126 SZ
127 SZ
128 SE
129 CCP
130 NE
131 KW
132 SA
133 SA
134 SZ
135 KW
136 SZ
137 SZ
138 KW
139 SA
140 CC
141 SA
142 SA
143 NW
144 SZ
145 SZ
146 SZ
147 SZ
148 SZ
149 SZ
150 SZ
151 KT
152 KT
153 KT
154 KT
155 KT
156 KT
157 KT
158 KT
159 KT
160 KT
161 CC
162 SZ
163 SZ
164 SZ
165 C
166 CC
167 CC
168 NW
169 SE
170 KW
171 KW
172 KW
173 KW
174 KW
1N CC
2N SA
3N HU
4N NW
5N SZ
6N NW
7N SZ
8N KE
1C SA
2C SA
3C NE
4C NE
5C NW
6C NE
7C ST
8C NW
9C NW


References:

Hsu, History of the Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945), 1971; Hsu writes that 191 Divisions (182 infantry and 9 Cavalry) were available at the start of the war. In addition there were 46 separate Brigades, 4 Artillery Brigades and 20 Artillery Regiments, which are not include here.

Jowett, China's Wars: Rousing the Dragon (1894-1949), 2013; provided insight into Warlord alliance. Also provided a summary of Field's Amerasia Journal, September 1937, listing the various Chinese Armies and the degree to which they were loyal to Chiang.

Pettibone, The Organization and OOB of Militaries in WWII, Vol VIII, China, 2013; Pettibone identifies what larger organization a Division was a part of, which helps with availability in July, 1937 and allegiance.

Sjchan, WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances post on 12 Dec 2013, 07:54, http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=203304; Sjchan's own offering of Division allegiances helped to fill in the gaps in my own research. Much appreciated.

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Re: WW2 Chinese Division Allegiances

Post by Stephen_Rynerson » 04 Nov 2014 14:56

Robert24 wrote:the Tungan Division under General Ma Zhongying was renamed the National Revolutionary Army 36th Division and eventually received some German training.
I'll have a number of other comments about your recent posts, but since unfortunately I'm limited for time at the moment I will simply note that the 36th Division that was commanded by Ma Zhongying and the 36th Division that received "German Training" (commanded by Li Zhipeng) are effectively completely different units that simply happen to share the same unit number. The 36th Division that was commanded by Ma Zhongying and later by Ma Hushan functionally ceased to exist in the September/October 1937 timeframe and certainly never was in a position to receive German training, having been in Xinjiang continually since late 1933. (In fact, I would think it highly unlikely that even a single soldier from the Ma 36th Division even ended up in the reorganized 36th Division.) I recommend Andrew D. W. Forbes, Warlords and Muslims in Chinese Central Asia: A Political History of Republican Sinkiang 1911–1949 as the best English-language source on the subject.

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