KMT soldiers in German helmets

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Adam Carr
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KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by Adam Carr » 09 Dec 2013 10:18

I found this photo, with no indication of where or when it was taken, showing Chinese troops wearing German coal-scuttle helmets - something I've never seen before. It seems to be an elite unit since they are wearing proper uniforms unlike most KMT soldiers. Does anyone know any more about this?
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Robert24
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Re: KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by Robert24 » 10 Dec 2013 04:40

Yep, German trained and equipped.

Start here for an overview...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G ... onary_Army

A clip from a recent move...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEV9CNZV3Ko

Jerry Asher
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Re: KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by Jerry Asher » 10 Dec 2013 06:28

Hi Adam and Robert:
If I recall there is a whole thread here on the helmets, and the photo posted has also been posted previously and identified. On the other hand French "Adrian"helmets used with divisions from Yunnan forces are a greater mystery. Chinese language research and publication is expanding very rapidly and perhaps will add greater clarity. Robert a book on Shandong Province, which I used in reply to a previous question on allegiances of divisions, contains a snapshot in time of a few other divisions. It also supplied to me a partial answer to Admiral Shen Honglie.

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Adam Carr
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Re: KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by Adam Carr » 10 Dec 2013 12:02

Thanks, guys - sehr interresant. I assume that when Hitler forged his alliance with Japan all the advisers with the KMT had to go home.

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oirob
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Re: KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by oirob » 12 Dec 2013 09:57

There is a Wikipedia article (in german) about the Chinese-German relations. It is mentioned that China ordered between 1935-1936 -315.000- Stahlhelme (stealhelmets) from Germany.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinesisch ... eziehungen
Slightly different article in english:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Germa ... 1911-1941)

cheers
Oirob

forttravel
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Re: KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by forttravel » 10 Dec 2015 00:08

Propaganda picture?
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Jerry Asher
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Re: KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by Jerry Asher » 10 Dec 2015 05:30

Hi forttravel: Not sure what you mean by propaganda photo? In a sense all photo's are public relations or propaganda photos. I can't recall this particular photo---but without any caption it could be used as verification that some Central government troops were so outfitted. I am pretty sure that ordering and outfitting is well documented --not to my satisfaction is the delivery--I am always looking for what ship and dates of departure and arrival. That said -there ought not to be any question as to their use by Chinese troops in combat during the battle of Shanghai (Song Hu). Compared to other kinds of helmets it ought to have saved some Chinese lives. If anyone has updated the sale, production, delivery (Ships )dates of German made products to the Republic of China, I would be interested. I came across one Chinese compliment that German deliveries were complete for an entire unit and not just a bunch of the same item.

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hongkongwargamer
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Re: KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by hongkongwargamer » 10 Dec 2015 06:33

Some of the best units under the Nationalists are trained by the Germans. As a matter of fact, German advisors were present at the opening engagements with the IJA in Shanghai. The Nationalist bought not only helmets but Mausers etc. You will also see Chinese units with British and French helmets. As a side note, the Italians trained the Chinese airforce. The Americans trained and equiped the Chinese forces in Burma. There's also the Flying Tigers.

The famous Sihang Warehouse engagement involve the German trained 88th division.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_o ... _Warehouse

Rgds Jack

forttravel
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Re: KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by forttravel » 10 Dec 2015 11:26

I mean only about shot/composition/pose "in action" of this picture.

forttravel
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Re: KMT soldiers in German helmets

Post by forttravel » 24 Dec 2015 08:54

One more picture. Additionally soldier in the middle carry a lmg BAR system.
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