What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-1945?

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Felix C
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What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-1945?

Post by Felix C » 19 May 2014 00:24

against the Japanese?
8mm Long Mausers presumably? Captured Japanese weapons.
I had an Inglis High Power with tangent sight and slotted for a wood stock for use as a carbine. Was this arm effective?
Did the M1 carbine and rifle see use?
British send their SMLE?

Stephen_Rynerson
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Re: What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-19

Post by Stephen_Rynerson » 22 May 2014 04:02

From Osprey Men-at-Arms Series # 424 The Chinese Army 1937-49:
By 1937 the predominant rifle of the Chinese armies was the 7.92mm German Mauser 98K which had been recommended by their German advisers in the early 1930s. The Mauser, imported in large numbers and soon under production in Chinese arsenals was known as the "Chiang Kai-shek" rifle. Other rifles based on the Mauser design were also imported from Belgium and Czechoslovakia, as the FN24 and VZ24 in their rifle and carbine forms. The older Mauser Gewehr 88 was also widely used in China and was produced as the Hanyang 88 in Chinese factories. . . . The predominant Chinese light machine gun was the excellent Czechoslovakian ZB26 . . . . Other models imported included the Swiss ZE70, the Finnish Lahti, and the Soviet DP26. Machine guns were always in short supply and even the best Chinese forces had only about one-third the allocation per division enjoyed by the Japanese troops. * * * The .30cal Springfield M1903 ad Enfield M1917 rifles had been supplied in large numbers by the USA pre-1945; but while significant numbers of M1 carbines were provided, as far as is known no Garand M1 rifles were supplied. Sub-machine guns were usually either .45cal Thompsons . . . Canadian-made 9mm Stens, or the Chinese Type 36 copy of the US .45cal M3 "grease gun." Light machine guns used during the Civil War were the Czech-designed 7.92mm ZB26 and a Canadian-made 7.92mm Bren gun.

Stephen_Rynerson
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Re: What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-19

Post by Stephen_Rynerson » 11 Jun 2014 01:47

Augmenting my previous post, see this link for information on small arms provided by the US to various Allied powers, including China: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref ... ip-3A.html

ymzxdh
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Re: What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-19

Post by ymzxdh » 22 Jul 2014 12:52

As far as I can tell, no SMLE or M1 garand were officially issued to any Chinese troops during WWII(the recoil of these weapons were too strong for many Chinese soldiers at that time). But some individuals of X force may traded some of those with other allied units.

ROLAND1369
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Re: What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-19

Post by ROLAND1369 » 22 Jul 2014 16:50

While I would not disagree that no M1s or SMLEs were given to the chinese, I would diagree with the recoil issue being the reason.
as they were certainly using US M1917 and M1903s as the recoil of an M1 or Smle is no different. I ave fired all of them and there is no noticable difference. A better answer is that the M! and SMLE were needed to equip their own units while the M1903 and M1917 were surplus to requirements. An additional reason was that the chinese soldier and the chinese armys limited maintaince infrastructure were already trained to handle and maintain bolt action weapons. A switch to semiautomatic and a foreign bolt action would have required retraining both soldiers and maintaince personel as well as a whole new logistic and maintaince chain.

ymzxdh
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Re: What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-19

Post by ymzxdh » 22 Jul 2014 18:30

Fair enough, but the reason I mentioned recoil issue is because I interviewed some veterans of Chinese Civil War and Korean War, they told me M1 garand and SMLE had nice fire power but they're too heavy and recoil were too strong. Also, I've read an article before, it mentioned many M1917 were specially modified to fit Chinese soldiers. Give me some more time, I'm gonna try to find more information on this.

ROLAND1369
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Re: What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-19

Post by ROLAND1369 » 22 Jul 2014 22:58

Having started my army career as an advisor working with asian soldiers the major problem with the older western weapon is that the stock is too long for their size. I believe you will find that the only modification made was to shorten the buttstock to fit their smaller stature.

ymzxdh
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Re: What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-19

Post by ymzxdh » 16 Aug 2014 14:05

Hi I just checked the source I mentioned, it says many M1917's barrels were shorten. I believe you can find a pic of the modified M1917 on Google. Also, the book says the M1903 used by ROC forces were mainly supplied by OSS to equip Chinese airborne units.

tomschen6645
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Re: What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-19

Post by tomschen6645 » 27 Aug 2014 02:54

http://www.chinesefirearms.com/ad2.html
China's Small Arms of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945)
There is considerable printed material in English on the Sino-Japanese War of 1937-1945, but very little of it is concerned with Chinese small arms of the period, especially detailed descriptions of the small arms made and used by the Chinese. A number of books have been written in English on Japanese small arms of the WWII period, but there is not a single book in English on Chinese small arms with the possible exception of Dolf Goldsmith's book Arming the Dragon.

Much of what is "known" about Chinese small arms is not based on reliable sources, so there are a number of misconceptions. And although there are a number of Chinese works on the subject, these are in Chinese and so of limited usefulness to most Westerners.

This book fills that gap. Based on credible Chinese sources and the actual arms themselves, this English version of the book serves as an accurate, reliable guide to Chinese small arms of the 1937-1945 period. I suggest that anyone interested in Chinese small arms of the WWII era, and indeed anyone interested in the Pacific theater of WWII, should buy this book.

Stephen_Rynerson
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Re: What type of small arms did the Chinese Army use 1931-19

Post by Stephen_Rynerson » 09 Sep 2014 05:48

Thank you for the tip about the book, tomschen6645. I received my copy last week and it looks quite interesting.

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