Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

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Hama
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Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

Post by Hama » 27 Mar 2017 11:02

I came across a brief mention of a 'Manchu Independence Plan' in a wikipedia article about Wu Junsheng (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Junsheng). It claims he took part in crushing this movement in 1912. While I know a good deal about the independence movement in Inner Mongolia, I've never heard of a Manchu independence movement at that time.

Does anyone know whether this was true? If so I'd love to hear any information on the subject.

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Hama
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Re: Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

Post by Hama » 27 Mar 2017 19:33

Ok not sure if this is what was meant in the Wu Junsheng article, but I did find a few mentions of Manchu independence groups during the 1910s in 'snippet view' of this book: https://books.google.ie/books?id=Fxs3RO ... &q&f=false

On page 93 it says that a Japanese activist named Kawashima Naniwa had developed some ties among the Manchu nobility and that during the 1911 revolution he and a group of Japanese military men persuaded Shanqi (Prince Su) to participate in a plan to make Mongolia and Manchuria independent of China. Shanqi arrived in Port Arthur, Kwantung Leased Territory in February 1912, but the Japanese Foreign Ministry apparently protested to the army and Shanqi ended his role in the plot and went in to retirement in Lushun.

Interesting that Kawashima is mentioned, as I'd heard of him before due to his involvement sending arms to independence groups in Inner Mongolia around the same time. Apparently he was active in Manchuria as well.

On page 100 it says that around 1915-16 Japanese activists and elements of the army were involved in sending arms to Manchu as well as Mongol independence groups, some of whom were apparently trying to rally around Shanqi again. The Japanese Foreign Ministry was apparently giving these plans tacit support in order to put pressure on Yuan Shikai's government. However after Yuan's death the Japanese army decided that these groups didn't have much chance of success and withdrew support.

If anyone else has info to share feel free. :)

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Re: Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

Post by Stephen_Rynerson » 30 Mar 2017 05:54

Hama,

Unfortunately, nothing in my library touches on the "Manchu Independence Plan" or anything similar in any detail. That said, you might want to look for a copy of Manchus and Han: Ethnic Relations and Political Power in Late Qing and Early Republican China, 1861-1928 by Edward J. M. Rhoads. I sadly can't see the pages in Google Books that would cover the relevant time period, but the parts that I can see look very comprehensive, so hopefully it would touch on the 1912 incident too. I'm thinking the incident has to have been pretty small scale though given the lack of coverage even in books that otherwise have a fair bit of coverage of the earlier part of the Republican era.

Also, you had asked elsewhere about books concerning Zhang Xun and the Qing restoration in 1917. I'm not familiar with any books that have extensive coverage on those subjects, nor am I finding anything in my library that has more than a few pages. Sources you might want to check that have at least a little coverage are:

Howard L. Boorman, ed., Biographical Dictionary of Republican China (1967), Vol. I, pp. 68-72.

Anatol M. Kotenev, New Lamps for Old: An Interpretation of Events in Modern China and Whither They Lead (1931 - also reprinted in 1971), pp. 108-111.

James E. Sheridan, China in Disintegration: The Republican Era in Chinese History, 1912-1949 (1975), pp. 65-66.

James E. Sheridan, Chinese Warlord: The Career of Feng Yu-hsiang (1966), pp. 64-66.

There's also a dissertation that looks like it would be absolutely on point -- Ho Man Chan, The Revival of the Manchu Monarchy in Early Republican China with Special Reference to the Restoration Movement of Chang Hsun (1988) (University of Alberta) -- it's not available free of charge on-line, sadly, so I can't give you a link to it.

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Re: Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

Post by Stephen_Rynerson » 30 Mar 2017 13:10

Hama,

On the subject of the attempted Manchu Restoration, I also found that Philip Jowett's The Armies of Warlord China, 1911-1928 (2013) has a surprising number of photos of the event at pages 80-84.

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Re: Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

Post by Hama » 30 Mar 2017 13:18

Thanks very much Stephen, helpful as always! More additions to my reading list.

The more I look in to it the more I've the feeling this "Manchu independence plan" was more about restoring the monarchy than actually creating an independent Manchuria. The individual Japanese agents and army guys involved might have been aiming for that, but people like Shanqi strike me more as Qing monarchists than independence advocates.

The book 'The Last Mongol Prince' by Sechin Jagchid deals extensively with the independence movement in Inner Mongolia (which was a genuine movement for national autonomy) during the first half of the 20th century. It also naturally makes mention of the Manchu at various times due to their proximity and interactions with the Mongols, and it mentions that Shanqi opposed the abdication of Puyi in 1912 and then fled to Dalian where he organised a monarchy restoration party called "Zongshe dang".

So I think as far as people like him were concerned it was less about Manchu independence than about bringing back Qing rule.

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Re: Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

Post by wstraka » 31 Mar 2017 02:32

Stephen and Hama,

I've found the thesis you mentioned ("The Revival of the Manchu Monarchy in Early Republican China with Special Reference to the Restoration Movement of Chang Hsun"). It is at:

https://era.library.ualberta.ca/files/j9602293j

Click on the link that says, "Download the full-sized PDF" on the left side of the page.

Also, I've just started reading, "Manchu Princess, Japanese Spy: The Story of Kawashima Yoshiko, the Cross-Dressing Spy Who Commanded Her Own Army". It doesn't mention the independence movements other than to say that he (Kawashima Naniwa) and Prince Su were continually plotting and their schemes would always come to naught.

Bill

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Re: Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

Post by Hama » 31 Mar 2017 10:58

Fantastic! Thanks a lot, will definitely find time to read through it.

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Re: Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

Post by Hama » 21 Jan 2018 02:02

I found another brief mention of these "independence plans" in a snippet view of this book: https://books.google.com/books?id=bhwqX ... 12&f=false

It would be interesting to read that document "The First and Second Manchuria-Mongolia Independence Movement" by Kurihara Ken if there was an English version available...

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Re: Manchu Independence Plan 1912?

Post by koczownik » 25 Aug 2018 21:10

The "independence plan" you are talking about was one of two incidents during 1910s which involved Japanese officer-adventurers scheming in the Man-Mo region (similarly to how the Manchurian Incident occurred in 1931). It did not directly involve the Japanese government. The incident in 1912 involved Gungsangnorbu, Inner Mongol prince involved in modernization efforts. He bought some arms from Japanese army officers in Spring 1912. I do not think this was an "independence movement", it was attempt by Gungsangnorbu to modernize his banner troops. The arms shipment was exposed by Chinese authorities in Peking, and Japanese plotters were arrested. The second incident in 1915 was the rebellion of Babuujab. He was an Inner Mongolian nationalist who had been working as an army commander for the Bogd Khanate. He was disillusioned after the Kiakhta Agreement between Russia, Bogd Khanate, and China. This agreement recognize Outer Mongolia as an autonomous region under China, and Babuujab was angered at this. So, he took his soldiers and began a rebellion against the Chinese in the borderlands between Inner Mongolia and Outer Mongolia. Some Japanese agents, scheming with Prince Su to destabilize Yuan Shikai's regime, approached Babuujab and persuaded him to work with them. When Yuan Shikai died, the Japanese government decided to be friendlier to the new Chinese president Li Yuanhong. Japanese agents were ordered to withdraw support from all the anti-Yuan Shikai factions. Babuujab was left on his own and eventually killed in a battle against Zhang Zuolin's troop at Linxi.

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