Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

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Admiral Bloonbeard
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Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by Admiral Bloonbeard » 20 Apr 2021 01:31

There been many studies about American and British opinion of the Axis powers during World War 2. "American Popular Opinion and the War Against Germany: The Issue of Negotiated Peace, 1942 by Richard W. Steele,The Journal of American History , Dec., 1978, Vol. 65, No. 3 (Dec., 1978), pp. 704-723" does a good job at detailing American opinion on peace with the Axis powers. What were Chinese opinions on Japan during World War 2? What were Chinese views on Japan on the matter of peace? Is there any Gallup data about this?

manfredzhang
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by manfredzhang » 08 Jun 2021 16:20

Over 90% of China's population at the time was illiterate. What's the point to have a poll?

Japan shared a stronger culture bond with China than any Western Powers and Russia, ordinary Chinese would be much more friendly to Japanese than White people.

The KMT regime was promoting a Nationalism agenda (like any other Nation Country would do). They had a strong Anti-Japanese sentiment. The Yangtze triangle was their base. So I will say, at the time those who were educated especially intellectuals were pretty much Anti Japanese, and they did control the media. So in cities (especially within Yangtze Triangle such as Nanking, Shanghai, Wuxi, Suchow and Ningpo), the sentiment was pretty strong. But outside cities where the majority of the population resided, people didn't buy it.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by Sid Guttridge » 09 Jun 2021 06:37

Hi manfredzhaung,

Illiteracy does not disqualify one from having an opinion and Gallup Polls were conducted by interview, so illiteracy was not an obstacle to their conduct.

You post, "But outside cities where the majority of the population resided, people didn't buy it." Didn't buy what? A negotiated peace?

Anyway, the good news is that almost the entire Chinese population is now literate. One in the credit column for the Communists, I guess. A pity they can't use this literacy to publish and read what they might want, though.

Cheers,

Sid.

manfredzhang
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by manfredzhang » 09 Jun 2021 13:52

Sid,

I mentioned many times. Please don’t use imagination. That simply does not work and never applies to China especially in the 1930s.
In Britain or US, even from colonial time, even servants were required to at least read some words. I will say the vast majority of the population had some degree of literacy. Even those few did not go to school, they could learn from their families, peers, they wouldn’t be too far off from understanding how the society worked. In this case, those few illiterates’ opinions do have values.
Not the case in China in the 1930s. The vast majority of the population did not read, hardly could spell their own names, had very limited resources to learn the outside world. And when I say outside world, I meant outside their own village. Not even their province not even their county. You ask their opinions to Japanese is like you are asking a bunch of dogs their opinions to the LGBTQ group. They will bark at you and shake their tails for food. Not on the same frequency…

Didn't buy what?
--------------------
The so called Chinese Nationalism or so called self identification.
Last edited by manfredzhang on 09 Jun 2021 15:21, edited 1 time in total.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by Sid Guttridge » 09 Jun 2021 14:35

Hi manfredzhang,

You really ought to read what I write, rather than make it up.

Did I dispute that there was widespread illiteracy in China in the 1930s? No! So I don't have to defend what I haven't written.

You asked, "Over 90% of China's population at the time was illiterate. What's the point to have a poll?" I replied. "Illiteracy does not disqualify one from having an opinion and Gallup Polls were conducted by interview, so illiteracy was not an obstacle to their conduct." This remains valid and, I note, you have not contradicted it.

Comparing consulting the bulk of the Chinese population to consulting "a bunch of dogs" doesn't seem very respectful. I appreciate their opinions were likely to be little informed, but couldn't you find a less offensive metaphor?

Cheers,

Sid.

manfredzhang
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by manfredzhang » 09 Jun 2021 14:59

Sid Guttridge wrote:
09 Jun 2021 14:35
Hi manfredzhang,

You really ought to read what I write, rather than make it up.

Did I dispute that there was widespread illiteracy in China in the 1930s? No! So I don't have to defend what I haven't written.

You asked, "Over 90% of China's population at the time was illiterate. What's the point to have a poll?" I replied. "Illiteracy does not disqualify one from having an opinion and Gallup Polls were conducted by interview, so illiteracy was not an obstacle to their conduct." This remains valid and, I note, you have not contradicted it.

Comparing consulting the bulk of the Chinese population to consulting "a bunch of dogs" doesn't seem very respectful. I appreciate their opinions were likely to be little informed, but couldn't you find a less offensive metaphor?

Cheers,

Sid.
This remains valid and, I note, you have not contradicted it.
------------------
Yes I did. I have mentioned in the US/UK society where the majority of the population were somewhat literate, the few illiterates could still have a general idea how the country/society worked.
Not the case in China where the majority of the population never had a chance to go outside their village or county. Who did not spell their own names who did not use Arabic numbers. They know nothing outside their village. What opinion you can get from them? They simply don’t know the context nor do they know what impact would bring to them. What’s the value of their opinions?

I agree my metaphor may not be appropriate and I apologize for that. But the fundamental is correct. Your opinion will be valueless if you don’t even have a clue what you were asked. And that’s exactly the case in China in the 1930s.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by Sid Guttridge » 10 Jun 2021 06:54

H Manfredzhang,

You are missing my point, which related to the conduct of Gallup Polls, not to the literacy of the Chinese population or the quality of their opinions.

Gallup polls were designed to pick up opinion. If conducted correctly, they should also pick up the "Don't Knows" and the simply ignorant.

Cheers,

Sid.

manfredzhang
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by manfredzhang » 10 Jun 2021 12:41

Sid Guttridge wrote:
10 Jun 2021 06:54
H Manfredzhang,

You are missing my point, which related to the conduct of Gallup Polls, not to the literacy of the Chinese population or the quality of their opinions.

Gallup polls were designed to pick up opinion. If conducted correctly, they should also pick up the "Don't Knows" and the simply ignorant.

Cheers,

Sid.
With the majority of "Don't knows", how do you draw any meaningful conclusion?
Last edited by manfredzhang on 10 Jun 2021 13:38, edited 1 time in total.

OpanaPointer
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by OpanaPointer » 10 Jun 2021 12:56

Did T. V. Soong and the Dragon Lady accurately represent the opinion of the Chinese public?
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manfredzhang
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by manfredzhang » 10 Jun 2021 12:59

OpanaPointer wrote:
10 Jun 2021 12:56
Did T. V. Soong and the Dragon Lady accurately represent the opinion of the Chinese public?
Absolutely No.

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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by OpanaPointer » 10 Jun 2021 13:02

manfredzhang wrote:
10 Jun 2021 12:59
OpanaPointer wrote:
10 Jun 2021 12:56
Did T. V. Soong and the Dragon Lady accurately represent the opinion of the Chinese public?
Absolutely No.
Were they behind or ahead of the public?
Come visit our sites:
hyperwarHyperwar
World War II Resources

Bellum se ipsum alet, mostly Doritos.

manfredzhang
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by manfredzhang » 10 Jun 2021 13:24

OpanaPointer wrote:
10 Jun 2021 12:56
Did T. V. Soong and the Dragon Lady accurately represent the opinion of the Chinese public?
Ordinary Chinese, or I should say ordinary residents on the land so called China wanted everyone else in the world wanted ---- better life.
They don’t care about nationalism, they don’t care about Japan. To most of them, the regime in Nanking made no difference than the regime in Tokyo. A typical farmer in Northern China say Hebei province, could read neither Chinese nor Japanese. To him, Japanese, Wu Chinese and Cantonese were three foreign languages.
Like I said, the Nationalism sentiment could only find a market with a very small portion of the population ---- the elite intellectual class.
They were the ones with vest interest and had the motivations to fight the Japanese.
They didn’t give a fxck about ordinary people’s life. That’s why they had been ruthless in the war. Just name a few atrocities the KMT regime committed to her own citizens which they were supposed to protect:
Bombing of Shanghai, killing over 1,000 civilians.
Changsha fire, killing 30K civilians.
Yellow River Flooding, killing 400K-900K civilians.
1942 Henan famine, killing 1M – 3M civilians.
Forced conscription and labor, killing 5M-10M civilians.
I can comfortably say KMT regime killed much more Chinese civilians than Japanese.
And Chinese people were not stupid. Here are their responses:
Millions of residents in Norther China migrated to Manchuria after Japan took over.
Henan people welcomed Japanese forces and disarmed KMT forces in 1944. One year before Japanese surrender.
Many units of KMT forces joined Wang Jingwei’s collaborate government and meanwhile still received payment from KMT.

gebhk
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by gebhk » 10 Jun 2021 14:27

The thing about opinions is that like certain parts of the anatomy we all have them. And knowing little or nothing about the subject of the opinion, has never stopped anyone from having one or parading it, as this and many other topics on this Forum show. The reason opinion contemporaneous to historical events is relevant is that it informs how people reacted to reality, so Admiral Bloonbeards question is a valid one. I too would be interested in the opinion of the inhabitants of China on the subject of the Japanese in the 30s and 40s. Not much interested in contemporary uninformed opinion about what their opinions should have been, though. But that's just my opinion, for what it's worth, before this topic becomes another interesting one that is sadly shut down because it drowns in a tide of irrelevant whataboutism.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by Sid Guttridge » 10 Jun 2021 14:44

Hi Manfredzhang,

I would suggest that a majority of "Don't knows" is a meaningful conclusion in its own right.

If people don't know, it is useful to know this.

Cheers,

Sid.

gebhk
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Re: Chinese public opinion of Japan during World War 2

Post by gebhk » 10 Jun 2021 15:18

If people don't know, it is useful to know this.
Amen to that. As well as the 'no opinions'.

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