War in China

Discussions on all aspects of China, from the beginning of the First Sino-Japanese War till the end of the Chinese Civil War. Hosted by YC Chen.
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thorwald77
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#31

Post by thorwald77 » 28 Oct 2007, 01:36

asiaticus wrote:Try this:

中国抗日战争正面战场作战记 (China's Anti-Japanese War Combat Operations)
Guo Rugui, editor-in-chief Huang Yuzhang
Jiangsu People's Publishing House
Date published : 2005-7-1
ISBN 7214030349

It was on line till just recently.
Maybe you can help those who can't read Chinese. Do they have details on total losses of China in the war?

Edward Chen
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#32

Post by Edward Chen » 29 Oct 2007, 04:12

asiaticus wrote:Try this:

中国抗日战争正面战场作战记 (China's Anti-Japanese War Combat Operations)
Guo Rugui, editor-in-chief Huang Yuzhang
Jiangsu People's Publishing House
Date published : 2005-7-1
ISBN 7214030349

It was on line till just recently.
It can still be found online, if you search for the file "中国抗日战争正面战场作战记.rar" (this archive contains two text files, all in Simplified-Chinese GB3212 format)

As for overall comprehensive casualty statistics, the text cites the following:

- on page 004: the Japanese military lost 435,600 dead in China, and at the end of the war 1.283 million personnel surrendered. It also cites that in addition, collaborator forces [伪军 weijun] lost 2.13 million men (1.18 million men were "wiped out" [歼灭 jianmie] and 0.95 million surrendered).

- on page 005: 35 million Chinese military personnel and civilians were killed or wounded in the war against Japan, of which some 20 million lost their lives. In addition, direct and indirect economic losses were valued at 560 billion US dollars.

- on page 009: the Nationalists lost 3.2 million personnel (killed and wounded) in eight years of combat against the Japanese; the Communist Eighth Route Corps [Balujün] and New Fourth Corps [Xinsijün] operating behind enemy lines lost 580,000 personnel.

Hope this helps, and Best Regards,


Edward Chen
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#33

Post by Edward Chen » 29 Oct 2007, 04:30

Hi all, and some statistics of interest:

The following is from my copy of "Rijun Qin Hua Ba Nian Kangzhan Shi" by General Ho Ying-ch'in [He Yingqin]; published 1982 by Liming Cultural Affairs Company, Taipei. General Ho was the Nationalist Chinese War Minister during WW2.
The book contains numerous tables based on officially released Nationalist Chinese government statistics, for what they're worth. However, there is no further breakdown of these casualty figures, such as by campaign.
Note also that in Table 4, there are no MIA figures given for 1937-40, since none were cited.

Hope this helps, and Best Regards,

/////
Table 4
作戰一來歷年我陸軍官兵傷亡統計表
(Table of Overall Casualties by Year For Our Army Personnel in Combat Operations)
Year Subtotal WIA KIA MIA
26 (1937) 367,362 242,232 125,130
27 (1938) 735,017 485,804 249,213
28 (1939) 346,543 176,891 169,652
29 (1940) 673,368 333,838 339,530
30 (1941) 299,483 137,254 144,915 17,314
31 (1942) 247,167 114,180 87,917 45,070
32 (1943) 162,895 81,957 43,223 37,715
33 (1944) 210,734 103,596 102,719 4,419
34 (1945) 168,850 85,583 57,659 25,608
TOTAL 3,211,419 1,761,335 1,319,958 130,126

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thorwald77
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#34

Post by thorwald77 » 29 Oct 2007, 05:05

Thank you Edward Chen

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Peter H
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#35

Post by Peter H » 30 Oct 2007, 02:50

Its said that 3,081,000 military conscripts also died in training camps:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=104515


http://www.gendercide.org/case_conscription.html
Conscription generally descended like an act of a malevolent God on poor and defenseless men. Peasants in the field, workers going to their job in the morning, or men caught on a road could be jumped on by troops, manacled together and marched off to a camp tens, if not hundreds, of miles away. ... Resistance meant death or mutilation. Those who could not keep up as they trudged toward a camp might be shot. Those who tried to escape usually were shot. Those who disobeyed orders often were shot. Moreover, on the way to camp conscripts were poorly fed, if at all. Some starved to death on the way. And there was no medical help if they became sick. In short, they were treated even worse than soldiers already on active duty. Foreigners would often report seeing these sad lines of ragtag conscripts chained together shuffling along with their heads down under armed excort like so many chain-gang prisoners. ... Often only 10 percent of the conscripts would arrive alive. ... Those that survived found camp conditions little better and the mortality hardly less. Of 40,000 conscripts arriving at a camp near Chengtu [Chengdu] during one conscription drive, no more than 8,000 remained alive by the end of the drive. When the news about the Nazi concentration camps at Belsen and Buchenwald broke, doctors working in one Chinese army camp could hardly be horrified: the description of the Nazi camps was little different from that of the ones they were working in, they said. (Death By Government, pp. 129- 30.)

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thorwald77
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Conscscription in Nationalist China

#36

Post by thorwald77 » 30 Oct 2007, 03:17

Peter H wrote:Its said that 3,081,000 military conscripts also died in training camps:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=104515


http://www.gendercide.org/case_conscription.html
Conscription generally descended like an act of a malevolent God on poor and defenseless men. Peasants in the field, workers going to their job in the morning, or men caught on a road could be jumped on by troops, manacled together and marched off to a camp tens, if not hundreds, of miles away. ... Resistance meant death or mutilation. Those who could not keep up as they trudged toward a camp might be shot. Those who tried to escape usually were shot. Those who disobeyed orders often were shot. Moreover, on the way to camp conscripts were poorly fed, if at all. Some starved to death on the way. And there was no medical help if they became sick. In short, they were treated even worse than soldiers already on active duty. Foreigners would often report seeing these sad lines of ragtag conscripts chained together shuffling along with their heads down under armed excort like so many chain-gang prisoners. ... Often only 10 percent of the conscripts would arrive alive. ... Those that survived found camp conditions little better and the mortality hardly less. Of 40,000 conscripts arriving at a camp near Chengtu [Chengdu] during one conscription drive, no more than 8,000 remained alive by the end of the drive. When the news about the Nazi concentration camps at Belsen and Buchenwald broke, doctors working in one Chinese army camp could hardly be horrified: the description of the Nazi camps was little different from that of the ones they were working in, they said. (Death By Government, pp. 129- 30.)
China's Bloody Century by R.J. Rummel covers the topic in greater detail. The statistic of 3,081,000 conscription deaths is his estimate that comes from that book. Rummel relies only on English language sources, His estimated total dead in the Sino-Japanese War is 19.6 million which is darned close to the source cited by Edward Chen which has a figure of 20 million.

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asiaticus
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Help! techno gibberish not Chinese

#37

Post by asiaticus » 30 Oct 2007, 12:56

Down loaded the rar files but they are written in this techno gibberish:


Öйú¿¹ÈÕÕ½ÕùÕýÃæÕ½³¡×÷Õ½¼Ç


×÷Õߣº¹ùÈê¹å

What do I do to get it looking like Chinese? I never thought I would find anything harder than Chinese to read.:^)

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