Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

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sjchan
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by sjchan » 11 Feb 2009 13:37

The book does not have much material on the harbour / fleet itself. I attach two more photos of the Qingdao harbour under Japanese occupation, from p. 107. The first is the small harbour and the other the main harbour.

The sunk transport (16 Aug 1944) are probably barges; no names are provided. According to Senshi Sosho about half of the vessels carrying tanks of a tank regiment were attacked by several planes near Anking and burst into fire, later sinking to the bottom of the Yangzi. The reason for the grevious loss was a change in the transport plan leading to the complete absence of escorts. The sources cited by Senshi Sosho were memoirs by the commanders / chief of staff of air units involved.
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sjchan
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by sjchan » 04 Mar 2009 19:01

Posting a list of ships in the Nationalist Navy at the outbreak of the war (based on two documents in Kangri Zhanzheng Zhengmain Zhanchang (vol. 3) pp1735-40 and 1894-96. The Guandong and Qingdao fleets were not included. (The information is in some cases different from those in http://www.yaox.com/cwm/ -- I am not an expert, would welcome any comments on the accuracy of the information here)

Ship's name tonnage captain's name fate of ship

1st Fleet
應瑞 Yingrui 2460 陳永欽 Chen Yongqin Sunk Oct 1937 by Japanese planes at 耒石磯
通濟 Tongji 1900 嚴壽華 Yan Shouhua Sunk Aug 1937 Jiangyin block
海容 Hairong 2950 歐陽勣 Ou Yangji Sunk Sep 1937 Jiangyin block
海籌 Haichou 2950 林鏡寰 Lin Jinghuan Sunk Sep 1937 Jiangyin block
甯海 Ninghai 2600 陳宏泰 Chen Hongtai Sunk Sep 1937 by Japanese planes at Jiangyin
平海 Pinghai 2600 高憲申 Gao Xianshen Sunk Sep 1937 by Japanese planes at Jiangyin
逸仙 Yixian 1500 陳秉清 Chen Bingqing Sunk Sep 1937 by Japanese planes at 永安洲 [Yonganzhou]
自強 Ziqiang 1050 張日章 Zhang Rizhang Sunk Aug 1937 Jiangyin block
大同 Datong 1050 羅致通 Luo Zhitong Sunk Aug 1937 Jiangyin block
中山 Zhongshan 844 薩師俊 Sa Shijun Sunk Aug 1938 by Japanese planes at 金口 [Jinkou]
永健 Yongjian 860 鄧則勛 Deng Zefen Sunk Aug 1937 by Japanese planes at Shanghai
永績 Yongji 860 曾冠瀛 Ceng Guanying Sunk Oct 1938 by Japanese planes at 新堤 [Xindi]
建康 Jiankang 390 齊粹英 Qi Cuiying Sunk Sep 1937 by Japanese planes near Jiangyin
克安 Kean 1290 江肇元 Jiang Zhaoyuan Survived the war
定安 Dingan 1140 Sunk Dec 1942 by Japanese planes in the Chuan Jiang

2nd Fleet
楚泰 Chutai 745 程嵋賢 Cheng Meixian Sunk Oct 1937 by Japanese planes near Jiangyin
楚有 Chuyou 745 鄭耀恭 Zheng Yaogong Survived the war
楚同 Chutong 745 林建生 Lin Jiansheng Survived the war
楚謙 Chuqian 745 王致光 Wang Zhiquang Survived the war
楚觀 Chuguan 745 任光海 Ren Guanghai Survived the war
江元 Jiangyuan 565 劉孝鋆 Liu Xiaoyun Survived the war
江貞 Jiangzhen 565 鄧耀樞 Deng Yaoshu
永綏 Yongsui 600 傅成 Fu Cheng Survived the war
民權 Minquan 460 劉煥乾 Liu Huanqian Survived the war
民生 Minsheng 500 鄧世璋 Deng Shizhang Sunk July 1938 by Japanese planes at Yueyang
咸寧 Xianning 420 薜家聲 Bi Jiasheng Sunk July 1938 at 武文Wuwen
德勝 Desheng 930 鄧體慈 Deng Tici Sunk Aug 1937 Jiangyin block
威勝 Weisheng 930 王夏鼐 Wang Xianai Sunk Aug 1937 Jiangyin block
江鯤 Jiangkun 140 楊道釗 Yang Daozhao Sunk Aug 1941 by Japanese planes at 台子灣[Taiziwan]
江犀 Jiangxi 140 Sunk Aug 1941 by Japanese planes at 台子灣 [Taiziwan]
湖鶚 Hue 96 Sunk Oct 1937 by Japanese planes at 鰣魚港 [Shiyugang]
湖隼 Husun 96 高鵬舉 Gao Pengju Survived the war
湖鷹 Huying 96 梁聿麟 Liang Yulin Sunk Aug 1938 by Japanese planes at 蘭溪 [Lanxi]
湖鵬 Hupeng 96 賈珂 Jia Ke Sunk Oct 1937 by Japanese planes near Jiangyin

3rd Fleet
海圻 Haiqi 4300 唐靜海 Tang Jinghai Sunk Sep 1937 Jiangyin block
海琛 Haichen 2950 張風仁 Zhang Fengren Sunk Sep 1937 Jiangyin block
肇和 Zhaohe 2460 方念祖 Fang Nianzu
楚豫 Chuyu 745 李信侯 Li Xinhou
永翔 Yongxiang 860 曹樹芝 Cao Shuzhi
江利 Jiangli 565 孟憲愚 Meng Xianyu
同安 Tongan 390 晏治平 Yan Zhiping
鎮海 Zhenhai 1400 汪于洋 Wang Yuyang
定海 Dinghai 900 謝渭鯽 Xie Weiji

Coast Guard
順勝 Shunsheng 380 湯寶璜 Tang Baohuang Sunk Nov 1938 Hunan 營田灘 [Yingtiantan] block
江甯 Jiangning 300 郭鴻久 Guo Hongjiu Sunk Oct 1937 by Japanese planes at 炮子洲 [Paozizhou]
海甯 Haining 300 何乃誠 He Naicheng Sunk July 1938 by Japanese planes at 丁家山 [Dingjiashan]
肅甯 Suning 300 鄧疇芳 Deng Choufang Sunk June 1938 by Japanese planes near [Fuzhou]
威甯 Weining 300 李孟元 Li Mengyuan Survived the war (after being captured by Japanese)
撫甯 Funing 300 蔣元福 Jiang Yuanfu Sunk May 1938 by Japanese planes near [Fuzhou]
綏甯 Suining 300 曹偉 Cao Wei Sunk July 1938 by Japanese planes at 黃石港 [Huangshigang]
崇甯 Chongning 300 葉水源 Ye Shuiyuan Sunk July 1938 by Japanese planes at 田家鎮 [Tianjiazhen]
義甯 Yining 300 嚴傳經 Yan Chuanjing Survived the war
正甯 Zhengning 300 林賡藩 Lin Gengfan Sunk May 1938 by Japanese planes near [Fuzhou]
長甯 Changning 300 林良繆 Lin Liangmiao Sunk July 1938 by Japanese planes at 武文[Wuwen]
義勝 Yisheng 350 熊兆 Xiong Zhao Sunk Nov 1938 by Japanese planes at 藕池口[Ouchikou]
仁勝 Rensheng 260 曾國奇 Ceng Guoji Sunk Nov 1938 by Japanese planes at 藕池口[Ouchikou]
勇勝 Yongsheng 280 Sunk Nov 1938 by Japanese planes at 藕池口[Ouchikou]

Survey Ships
甘露 Ganlou 400 梁同怡 Liang Tongyi Sunk Sep 1940 by Japanese planes at 台子灣 [Taiziwan]
暾日 Tunri 500 謝為良 Xie Weiliang Sunk Aug 1937 by Japanese gunboats near Jiangyin
青天 Qingtian 280 葉裕和 Ye Yuhe Sunk Oct 1937 by Japanese planes near Jiangyin
誠勝 Chengsheng 280 李申榮 Li Shenrong Sunk in Shandong after the armament was taken off
公勝 Gongsheng 280 何傳永 He Chuanyong Sunk Oct 1938 by Japanese planes near [Guangzhou]

Others
武勝 Wusheng 740 Sunk Aug 1937 Jiangyin block
辰字 Chenzi 90 Sunk Aug 1937 Jiangyin block
宿字 Suzi 90 Sunk Aug 1937 Jiangyin block
普安 Puan 2305 Sunk June 1939 Shanghai block
Last edited by sjchan on 06 Mar 2009 14:21, edited 1 time in total.

Jerry Asher
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by Jerry Asher » 06 Mar 2009 06:19

Hi SJ: Just noticed your posting of March 4, thank you for assisting all of us working in English. The matching of the commanding officers to the ships is not something I have seen before but helps make complete the record. Again many thanks. I will check your list against what ever stuff I have and post at the end of next week. In the meantime just two items. #1 Puan listed under others--I am certain it was scuttled as the center piece of the mid line of the Huangpo River effort at Shanghai in August 1937. I think you were simply fatigued with June 1939. #2 Not sure category of "Coast Guard" is the appropriate English language translation--particularly for American English users were the Coast Guard is a distinct entity slightly older if I recall than the United States Navy. Will talk more. I'm sure there will be several other commentators by the time I get back. Wonderful post.

sjchan
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by sjchan » 06 Mar 2009 14:22

Jerry Asher wrote: #2 Not sure category of "Coast Guard" is the appropriate English language translation--particularly for American English users were the Coast Guard is a distinct entity slightly older if I recall than the United States Navy. Will talk more. I'm sure there will be several other commentators by the time I get back. Wonderful post.

Yeh I made it up; should really be something like patrol boats.

rjl3
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by rjl3 » 10 Mar 2009 06:02

Sjchan,
Thank you so much for your posting of March 4 listing ships, tonnages, captains, and fates. This is a fascinating and not-well-covered topic and very difficult to find sources (especially in English). Your work is much appreciated!
Kind regards,
Ralph

sjchan
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by sjchan » 12 Mar 2009 07:25

Filling in some gaps in the previous post using other sources:

From Tu shuo Zhongguo hai jun shi : gu dai-1955 by Chen Zhenshou, 2002. "Pictoral History of the Chinese Navy : Ancient times to 1955" Vol. 3. p. 751, information on the 3rd Fleet

肇和 Zhaohe 2460 方念祖 Fang Nianzu Sunk by Japanese planes near Humen
楚豫 Chuyu 745 李信侯 Li Xinhou Sunk Dec 1937 Tsingtao [Qingdao] block
永翔 Yongxiang 860 曹樹芝 Cao Shuzhi Sunk Dec 1937 Tsingtao [Qingdao] block
江利 Jiangli 565 孟憲愚 Meng Xianyu Sunk Dec 1937 Tsingtao [Qingdao] block
同安 Tongan 390 晏治平 Yan Zhiping Sunk Dec 1937 Tsingtao [Qingdao] block
鎮海 Zhenhai 1400 汪于洋 Wang Yuyang Sunk Dec 1937 Tsingtao [Qingdao] block
定海 Dinghai 900 謝渭鯽 Xie Weiji Sunk Dec 1937 Tsingtao [Qingdao] block

From Tu shuo Zhongguo hai jun shi : gu dai-1955 by Chen Zhenshou, 2002. "Pictoral History of the Chinese Navy : Ancient times to 1955" Vol. 3. p. 790, the list of ships in the Guangdong Fleet which was not under direct KMT control.

肇和 (see double-listed entry in 3rd Fleet above)
福安 Fuan
永福 Yongfu
海瑞 Hairui 1200
海虎 Haihu 680 Sunk by Japanese planes in Sep 1937 near Humen
廣金 Guangjin
舞風 Wufeng Sunk by Japanese planes in Sep 1937 near Humen
江大 Jiangda Sunk by Japanese planes in Sep 1937 near Humen
江鞏 Jianggong Sunk by Japanese planes in Oct1937 near Punyu
堅如 Jianru 140 Sunk by Japanese planes in Sep 1937 near Humen; salvaged and sunk again by Japanese planes in Oct 1938 near 三水
執信 Zhixin 140 Sunk by Japanese shore batteries in Oct 1938 near 三水
仲元 Zhongyuan Sunk by Japanese planes in Nov / Dec 1938
仲愷 Zhongkai Sunk by Japanese planes in Nov / Dec 1938
安北 Anbei Sunk by Japanese planes in Nov / Dec 1938
飛鵬Feipeng Sunk by Japanese planes in Nov / Dec 1938
平西 Pingxi
廣安 Guangan 80
光華 Guanghua
湖山Hushan Sunk by Japanese planes in Nov / Dec 1938
淞江 Songjiang
珠江 Zhujiang
金馬 Jinma
智利 Zhili
江澄 Jiangcheng
利琛 Lichen
江平 40 Jiangping
海鷗 Haiou
綏江 Suijiang
西興 Xixing
安東Andong Sunk by Japanese planes in Nov / Dec 1938
海强 Haijiang
海維 Haiwei 200 Sunk by Japanese planes in Sep 1937 nearYamen
海周 Haizhou Sunk by Japanese planes in Sep 1937 near Humen.

Four torpedo boats, all sunk by Japanese planes near Humen in Oct 1937.

sjchan
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by sjchan » 19 Mar 2009 17:58

Some additional information for the torpedo boats:

Torpedo boats

史34 Shi 34 14 姜翔翱 Jiang Xiangao sunk in 1937
史102 Shi 102 14 胡敬端 Hu Jinduan Sunk Aug 1937 by Japanese cruiser Izumo
史181 Shi 181 14 楊維智 Yang Weizhi sunk in 1937
史223 Shi 223 14 陳溥星 Chen Puxing Sunk in July 1938 in an accident
文42 Wen 42 14 黃震白 Huang Zhenbai Scuttled in Guangxi in Sep 1944?
文88 Wen 88 14 謝宴池 Xie Yanchi Scuttled in Guangxi in Sep 1944?
文93 Wen 93 14 吳士榮 Wu Shirong Sunk by Japanese ships in July 1938
文171 Wen 171 14 劉功棣 Liu Gongdi Scuttled in Guangxi in Sep 1944?
顏53 Yan 53 14 Scuttled in Guangxi in Sep 1944?
顏92 Yan 92 14 Cornered and captured in Oct 1938 by Japanese vessels at Sanshui
顏161 Yan 161 14 Scuttled in Guangxi in Sep 1944?
顏164 Yan 164 14 Scuttled in Guangxi in Sep 1944?
岳22 Yue 22 54 齊鴻章 Qi Hongzhang Sunk in Oct 1938 by Japanese planes
岳253 Yue 253 54 崔之道 Cui Zhidao Survived the war
岳371 Yue 371 54 黎玉璽Li Yuxi Survived the war

Finally, a list (presumably incomplete) of casualties and dates of engagements in which vessels were sunk or damaged, based on various sources

Aug 16, 1937 Shi 102 sunk 1 wounded
Aug 26, 1937 Tunri sunk 2 killed
Sep 22, 1937 Pinghai damaged (twice) 11 killed, 1 wounded (the captain)
Sep 23, 1937 Ninghai sunk 5 wounded (including the captain)
Sep 23, 1937 Pinghai sunk 5 killed, 50 wounded
Sep 26, 1937 Yixian sunk 14 killed, 8 wounded
Sep 26, 1937 Jiankang sunk 9 killed 30 wounded (including the captain)
Sep 29, 1937 Chuyou sunk 2 wounded
Oct 3, 1937 Qingtian sunk 1 killed
Oct 3, 1937 Hupeng sunk 1 killed
Oct 5, 1937 Jianning sunk
Oct 5, 1937 Suining damaged 1 killed 10 wounded
Oct 5, 1937 Jiangyuan damaged 3 wounded
Oct 12, 1937 Shi 181damaged unknown number killed (another source has the ship sunk Nov 11, 1937 by Japanese vessels)
Oct 12, 1937 Shi 34 damaged 9 killed (including the captain) (another source has the ship sunk Sep 29 1937)
Oct 23, 1937 Yingrui sunk 20 killed 40 wounded
March 27, 1938 Yisheng damaged 1 wounded
May 31, 1938 Funing sunk 9 killed 4 wounded
June 1, 1938 Zhengning sunk 1 killed
June 1, 1938 Suning sunk 2 killed 4 wounded
June 1, 1938 楚泰Chutai damaged
July 17, 1938 Shi 223 sunk
July 17, 1938 Shi 253 damaged
June 25, 1938 Yining damaged 7 killed (including the captain)
June 25, 1938 Changning damaged 8 wounded
June 29, 1938 Chongning damaged
July 1, 1938 Xianning sunk 8 killed 54 wounded (including the captain)
July 1, 1938 Changning sunk 2 killed 8 wounded
July 3, 1938 Chongning sunk 4 killed 14 wounded (including the captain)
July 13, 1938 Suining sunk 2 wounded
July 17, 1938 Wen 42 damaged
July 17, 1938 Wen 88 damaged
July 20, 1938 Minsheng damaged
July 20, 1938 Jiangzhen damaged 4 killed 17 wounded
July 24, 1938 Haining sunk 3 killed 5 wounded
Aug 1, 1938 Yue 22 sunk
Aug 1, 1938 Yan 161 damaged
Oct 21, 1938 Yongji damaged 2 wounded
Oct 21, 1938 Jiangyuan damaged 1 wounded
Oct 22, 1938 Gongsheng sunk
Oct 22, 1938 Chengsheng scuttled
Oct 24, 1938 Zhongshan sunk 24 killed (including the captain) 33 wounded
Oct 24, 1938 Chutong damaged
Oct 26, 1938 Minsheng and Jiangzhen scuttled
Nov 11, 1938 Yisheng sunk
Nov 11, 1938 Rensheng sunk
Nov 11, 1938 Yongsheng sunk
Nov 11, 1938 Barge no. 4 sunk at Ouchikow
Nov 11, 1938 Barge no. 6 sunk at Ouchikow
Aug 6, 1939 Haon 克安(transport) damaged (7 killed)
Sep 3, 1940 Ganlou sunk 4 killed
Sep 4, 1940 Husun damaged
Sep 14, 1940 Barge no. 7 sunk at Badong
Aug 24, 1941 Jiangkun sunk 5 wounded
Aug 24, 1941 Jiangxi sunk 4 wounded
Dec 17 1942 Dingan 定安(transport) sunk 2 killed
Dec 25, 1942 Shunli 順利(transport) sunk 1 killed
Apr 22, 1943 Gongan 光安 (transport) damaged
Sep 17, 1943 Barge no. 3 sunk at Badong
Last edited by sjchan on 22 Mar 2009 15:36, edited 1 time in total.

rjl3
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by rjl3 » 20 Mar 2009 20:46

SJ
thank you again for posting so much wonderful info.
would it be possible for you to post the chinese characters of the ships sunk or damaged? I can't tell which ship is which without seeing the characters!
does your interest in this period extend beyond the navy and cover merchant ships?
TIA
Ralph

sjchan
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by sjchan » 22 Mar 2009 15:40

There is a one to one mapping between the English and Chinese names so you can actually map them to the previous posts. However I have added the Chinese names to a few transports in the previous post as I am not sure they are in the original list.

I am not really into merchant ships; actually I am more interested in the land battles but they are much more complicated and the naval / aerial stuff are relatively simple, so I have posting stuff on these aspects of the war as I came across what I considered to be useful material.

Jerry Asher
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by Jerry Asher » 26 Mar 2009 05:28

Hi Sj: Again many thanks for the posts. There are few things more-- but of what significance I wouldn't push. One descrapancy relates to the Chutai and Chuyou of the 2nd Fleet. I have the Chuyou as being sunk near Jiangyin and you list as having "survived the war." I beleive your second posting on losses showing Chuyou as being sunk on Sept 29th, 1937 is correct. I have no data on Chutai being sunk Oct. 1937 but feel your cited June 1, 1938 damage to Chutai is correct. A few other minor points-- dates of ships damaged then repaired and then later further damaged or sunk--but nothing outstanding. many thanks --I have names of afew other ships at different locales but your list of torpedo boats scuttled because of Japan's Ichigo offensive is new to me. (pure deduction on my part based on location and date). Very well done SJ

sjchan
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by sjchan » 27 Mar 2009 07:18

Hi Jerry

Yes, my other sources have the Chuyou sunk in 1937 as well.

As for the Chutai, it was damaged and beached in 1938, and was scuttled in April 1941 when the Japanese forces invaded Foochou.

As for the torpedo boats, yes you are right about the connection to Ichigo offensive.

Quorthon
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Re:

Post by Quorthon » 03 May 2009 09:48

Windward wrote:two Chinese navy commanders: Chen Shaokuan, minister of navy, and Chen Tse, commander of Cantonese Navy


Hi windward,

i was serching for a list of commanders/admirals of Chinese Nationalist Navy with images like that you attached to your reply.

Do you know some websites, better in english, but also in chinese (maybe if you can give me the exact link of the page list for an easy exploration).

Another question: i know the existence of "Kiangnan Dock and Engineering Works". There were other shipyards in second sino japanese war period, who build Nationalist ships?

Thanks a lot.

rjl3
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by rjl3 » 03 May 2009 16:51

Looking for builders and date-of-build for patrol ships of the Canton Fleet's " ____ Sheng" class:

Kung Sheng
Jen Sheng
Yi Sheng
Yung Sheng
Shun Sheng

Also, according to The Chinese Steam Navy, the French minesweeper Inconstant was purchased about 1933 by the Canton Fleet. What name was it given?

MTIA,
Ralph

sjchan
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by sjchan » 04 May 2009 06:22

All these gunboats were originally built as civilian vessels, and converted into gunboats later.

The Yisheng was originally built by the Yangzi shipyard in 1911; it was retrofitted in Jan 1928 at the Kiangnan Shipyard to a a river gunboat. Ditto for the Rensheng (Yensheng) which was retrofitted in June 1928, the same date as the Kung Sheng.

The Shunsheng was built in 1911 by the Shanghai Ruirong Shipyard; it was retrofitted in Dec 1929 at the Kiangnan Shipyard. The Yungsheng was built at the Kiangnan Shipyard in 1908, and retrofitted in March 1928.

All these information came from the following Web site:
http://www.yaox.com/cwm/

Quorthon
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Re: Actions of the Chinese Nationalist Navy

Post by Quorthon » 06 May 2009 14:46

sjchan wrote:All these gunboats were originally built as civilian vessels, and converted into gunboats later.

The Yisheng was originally built by the Yangzi shipyard in 1911; it was retrofitted in Jan 1928 at the Kiangnan Shipyard to a a river gunboat. Ditto for the Rensheng (Yensheng) which was retrofitted in June 1928, the same date as the Kung Sheng.

The Shunsheng was built in 1911 by the Shanghai Ruirong Shipyard; it was retrofitted in Dec 1929 at the Kiangnan Shipyard. The Yungsheng was built at the Kiangnan Shipyard in 1908, and retrofitted in March 1928.

All these information came from the following Web site:
http://www.yaox.com/cwm/


Thanks for the infos.

Do you know some commander/admirals of Nationalist China Navy?

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