Red Mole Triggers China-Japan War?

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 20 Aug 2005 13:05

This link suggests some peace moves were in the air pre-Shanghai:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/timeline/144chap2.html
With the completion of punitive operations against the 29th Army in the Peiping-Tientsin sector early in August, behind-the-scene negotiations were started, mainly under the sponsorship of Navy Minister Yonai, which aimed at saving the situation by diplomatic measures. As days passed the differences between the radical and moderate elements within the Army were gradually lessened and a trend toward the resumption of formal diplomatic negotiations became discernible. On the part of China, the Foreign Affairs Department of the Nationalist Government made an announcement on 7 August as follows:

There still is a possibility of peacefully settling the present conflict between China and Japan, provided that the latter be ready to accept the former's proposal for negotiations. So long as diplomatic relations between the two countries have not been formally severed, negotiations could be started soon. Now that the situation has become extremely tense, it is imperative to give an immediate answer to the question of war or peace. This, however, does not necessarily mean that it is too late to begin negotiations for a peaceful settlement. It is believed that the present difficulties will be surmounted only if leaders of the Japanese Government show statesmanship supported by courage.

The time seemed to have at last arrived when there would be peace between the two countries. Formal negotiations were about to be commenced. However, the Oyama Incident in Shanghai caused the peace move to end in total failure.
Is this a valid presentation?

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Leonard
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Post by Leonard » 21 Aug 2005 22:38

I respect the viewpoints of Jung Chang, but I do not agree "Red Mole triggers China-Japan War", at least not by ZZZ. Chiang Kai Shek never intends to start an all out war in Shanghai. He has 30 German trained division and he only send 2 to 3 of them to attack the IJN Shanghai SNLF. What he is trying to achieve, I believe, is to have at least some bargaining power to negotiate Japan's retreat in the north. Chiang must also shows that he is a capable leader. If the battle in Shanghai has not started, the IJA divisions in northern China will propbably stop after taking another chunk of Chinese soil. Chiang will lost face to an extend that he can't maintain the loyalty of his generals.

On the other hand, the IJA and Kwantung Army has not even been mobilized when Marco Polo Incident occured. It is quite possible that the first shot in Peiping was fired by Communist. This viewpoint is widely accepted in Japan today.

Taking a global perspective, Stalin gain the most if Japan invade China. If Stalin's involvement is so critical in the Sian Incident, I won't be surprised if he somehow triggers the China-Japan War.

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Windward
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Re: Red Mole Triggers China-Japan War?

Post by Windward » 23 Aug 2005 16:14

Peter H wrote:The 'mole' was one Zhang Zhi-zhong,commander of the Shanghai-Nanking garrison.Known as the 'Red teacher' at the Whampoa Military Academy,Zhang asked to join the CCP but was told by Chou En-Lai to stay in the Nationalists as a sleeper.
It's Zhang Zizhong but not Zhang Zhizhong.

He was close friend of uncle of my grandma, general Shi Jingting, warlord of Shandong Province. He sent his guards to covered and escorted general Shi to escape from Peping in the night of July 7. I heard a lot of stories about Zhang from my grandma and the widow of her elder cousin (general Shi's nephew). Trust me, Zhang was not a red mole, even judged by a radical anti-communism guy like me.

And it's so so funny for me to see my old fellow Mars to be criticized as a "Maoist", I think it's the most serious humiliate to him. :lol:

cheers dudes

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