Diversity of Chinese equipment

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Volklin
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Diversity of Chinese equipment

Post by Volklin » 18 Sep 2005 09:50

The Chinese used anything and evertype of weaponry they could get their hands on, and had equipment from Allied and Axis countries alike, from which countries did they use equipment and were they also known to use equipment from the 19th century?

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TISO
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Post by TISO » 18 Sep 2005 14:58

I'm answering from top of my head. I can only confirm planes used. Incomplete list:
Italy:
Breda Ba-27 fighter
Fiat Cr-32 fighter

Germany:
He-66
He-111 A/B
Hs-123 dive bomber
UK:
Gloster Gladiator

France:
Devoitene D-510

US:
Bellanca 28-90 armed racing plane
Boeing 247
Curtiss Hawk II/III
Douglas O-2MC-2/10
Vought V-92C Corsair
Vultee V-11
Northrop 2E
Martin 139

SSSR:
I-15bis
I-153
I-16
SB 2-M-100 (2-M-103)
TB-3

Something about the planes used:
http://www.worldatwar.net/chandelle/
June /july 1997 edition - Before the tigers - Chinese struggle against Japan
March 1998 edition - Red riposte - Soviet volunter group over Formosa

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 18 Sep 2005 15:45

Hello,

Devoitene is in fact Dewoitine.

The Chinese used also Renault FT17 as well as a few Renault ZB light tanks armed with a 13.2mm Hotchkss MG.

Regards,

David

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Post by Grigory » 18 Sep 2005 19:41

Complete list of Soviet planes used by China:
- I-15bis (fighter biplane)
- I-153 (fighter biplane)
- I-16 (fighter monoplane)
- UTI-4 (training fighter)
- SB (front bomber; 2M-100 and 2M-103 subtypes)
- DB-3A (long range bomber)
- TB-3 (4-engine heavy bomber)
- R-5 (front bomber, recogniser and attacker); some sources also mention R-Z, modified version of R-5
- U-2 (known later as Po-2; training)
- UT-2 (training)
- UT-1 (trainig)
- G-1 and G-2 (cargo versions of bombers TB-1 and TB-3)

Total about 1250 planes from October 1937 till June 1941; 885 of them - in 1937-38.
Number of I-16 (I-16 type 5 and type 10) - 215 plus several (from 4 to 8 ) UTI-4 (two-seat training version of I-16).

Soviet tanks used by China - 82 T-26 light tanks (in service in 200th mechanized division of China army, used until 1944).
//Some sources also mention BA-6 armored cars but it's not true//

German armor: 18 Sd.Kfz. 221 and 12 Sd.Kfz. 222 armored cars in 1938.

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asiaticus
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about those armoured cars.

Post by asiaticus » 18 Sep 2005 21:58

Grigory

You write:

"Some sources also mention BA-6 armored cars but it's not true"

Any idea what if any ACs were sent?

From a discussion about the 200th Mechanized Division on the China Defense forum:

http://www.china-defense.com/forum/inde ... ntry202934

The Chinese supposedly had a whole armoured vehicle regiment of 50 BA tupe Armored Cars besides and armoured regiment with Soviet and some Italian tanks.
These would be mostly BA-3's or BA-6's (the older type models) or their newer BA-10s that all had the 45mm guns and MGs like the T-26 and BT tanks.

I imagine some of the armoured cars could also be the FAI type or BA-20s armed only with MGs which I know were common for the recon elements with the Amoured Car Brigades/Battalions of the RKKA in Mongolia at that time.

Grigory
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Re: about those armoured cars.

Post by Grigory » 18 Sep 2005 22:23

asiaticus wrote: You write:

"Some sources also mention BA-6 armored cars but it's not true"

Any idea what if any ACs were sent?
Asiaticus,
the source is:

"In the foreign press was given the information about the deliveries of armored cars BA-6 into China. ... this is highly improbable. In any case, in the published in the domestic press data about the deliveries into China of combat materiel and armament from 1936 through 1939 the armored cars BA-6 (and armored cars generally) do not be registered."
'Srednie Pushechnie' ('Medium Gun-armed') by M.Bariatinskiy

If it's not true and armored cars were in China from USSR, I suppose they were not BA-6 but BA-I ('I' from 'Ijorsky', the name of factory where it was designed) or BA-3 (which were based on imported Ford-Timken chassis and so were 'non-standart', when BA-6 - on Russian-built GAZ-AAA chassis). At least 60 BA-3 were sold to Turkey...

No more info, sorry... All books on Russian and Soviet armored cars (by M.Bariatinskiy and S.Fedoseev) have the same words: "The armored cars in delivery lists for China are not registered..."

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asiaticus
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Post by asiaticus » 19 Sep 2005 00:08

Well it seems an on the scene report from someone there at the time would be the thing to settle the issue.

Given the many vehicles the Chinese had aquired it could be a mix of German, Soviet and varous other nations vehilces.

Grigory
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Post by Grigory » 21 Sep 2005 09:24

Well, some new info on the question:

from October 1937 to September 1939 from USSR to China:
- 985 airplanes (including 6 TB-3, 292 SB, 36 DB-3, 120 I-15, 120 I-16)
- 82 T-26 tanks
- 1317 guns and howitzers
- 1550 motor vehicles
- 30 prime movers
- 14025 MG
- 164.5 million cartridges
- 1.9 million artillery shells
- 82.300 air boms

http://www.almanacwhf.ru/?no=2&art=16 (in Russian)

//BTW, this article also include list of weapon deliveries from USSR to Spain in 1936-39.//

And some errata: after detailed research in history of I-15 fighter family I'm in heavy doubt about I-153 in China... It was in production only from 1939. So I suppose that only I-15 and I-15bis (also known as I-152) were in China.

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Milorg
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Post by Milorg » 21 Sep 2005 10:07

Some smal arms(just from the top of my head):

Czech ZB vz 26 and 30(some made in Canada, like the BREN)

STEYR-SOLOTHURN SMGs

Mauser pistols. and rifles from different sources.

Hotchiss MGs

A few UD M 42s from the US. garands and springfields. maybe also the whole Browning range.

Some german Sd.Kfz.221 armoured cars

ceers Milorg

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