How organized was the Chinese army?

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Tycoon2002
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Post by Tycoon2002 » 17 Feb 2006 02:27

Here is a picture of Chinese soldiers in the battle of shanghai.

[img]http://pro.corbis.com/images/U409389ACM ... da3e68f726}[/img]

Original caption: A unit of the Chinese Army Engineering Corps, crossing a stream under protection of heavy machine gun and their own rifles, is shown here in the Shanghai war zone. A modern and well-equipped army, high in morale, is prepared to face the Japanese invader in the Shanghai area.


[img]http://pro.corbis.com/images/BE045241.j ... 7f34fdd450}[/img]
Original caption: China: Chinese troops battling the Japanese during the Sino-Japanese War. Undated photograph.

[img]http://pro.corbis.com/images/BE045215.j ... 6d29f889b0}[/img]

[img]http://pro.corbis.com/images/HU060337.j ... bc6af01c1b}[/img]






Edit - Sorry about the errors, Ive got some good pictures of Chinese units in Shanghai but it doesnt seem to be comming up? Anyone know how to solve this problem?

Eugen Pinak
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Post by Eugen Pinak » 17 Feb 2006 12:45

Tycoon2002, your second photo is not of SJW. 1920th, not later.

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 17 Feb 2006 14:08

The image function only works with jpg or gif files.

Corbis have modified their photos online so they cannot be hot linked.

Tycoon2002
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Post by Tycoon2002 » 17 Feb 2006 14:54

Ok thanks for your replies.

Its a shame because these are great photos of equipped Chinese troops fighting on the streets of Shanghai.

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asiaticus
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How to veiw Corbis photos and second photo comment

Post by asiaticus » 17 Feb 2006 19:36

You can look at Corbis photos. Just cut the web address out of the rest of that garbage and paste in your browser address area and hit the Go button. Takes you right there.

Pics look great.

BTW that second photo looks like it might be from the 1st Shanghai incident in 1932 if it isnt from the 2nd in 1937.
IIRC the 19th Route Army in 1932 was pretty well equipped with British equipment.

Chineseboy
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Post by Chineseboy » 23 Feb 2006 10:50

Panzerfaust XxX wrote:Which Chinese Army are you talking about The Communist or Nationalist?
communist force was miserable!!!

most communist soliders only have 3-5 rifle rounds, the whole company only have 1 machine gun, so many millitia only have lance and sword.

George Van Amber
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Post by George Van Amber » 23 Feb 2006 19:59

from what I read over the years the Chinese armies were ragtag units.

Tycoon2002
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Post by Tycoon2002 » 23 Feb 2006 23:28

The Communists were pretty poorly equipped early in the war. But the Communists captured a hell of a lot of Japanese weapons from the battle field and their gruellea war fare was more effective than the Nationalist's all out war.

The Nationalists were better equipped esepcially the German trained army which matched any Western or Japanese division. Unfournetly Chaing only had 88,000 of them and used 1/3 of it in Shanghai. Though after 1941 America gave very generously their lend-lease material to Chiang even though Joseph Stillwell was not at all impressed with Chaing preserving them to fight the Communists instead of devoting those resoucres to fight Japan.

RollingWave
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Post by RollingWave » 08 Mar 2006 08:25

The communist got off easier cause they weren't viewed as the main target and was basically just "watched" by Japanese troops instead of actually attacked.

Then again the communist didn't make much of a push either, instead just harrased and raided the japanese troops around their territory, (parts of northern China mostly), basically they got the same treatment of lesser warlords, there were a couple of those warlord groups that were basically independent from the war (or at least not totally commited.. Shang Xi and Xing Jian was a good example of this...), and the Japanese usually just kepted a watch on them instead of actually going full out to annihilated them... and in fact the "troops" sent to watch these warlords and communist were often second rate armed/trained troops that were closer to military police than an actual army. Also, the communst structure at that time was different than the Nationalist, in the sense that part of their "army" were actually their farmers / workers / civilians, as they were running their territory as a whole , so the degree of armenment for Communist "armies" may be deceptive... as your certainly not going to arm your "farmers" with much more than old rifles and maybe even spears.

On the other hand the Nationalist troops did face a Japanese army that was bent on annihilating them... and had little options except to face the Japanese head on.

The lack of heavy weapons was indeed the biggest problem for the Chinese armies at that time, as others have meantioned, the heaviest weapon for most Nationalist troops at that time were mortars... There were only a limited amount of divions that had artilliery while the number of tanks were certainly even lower.

I recall that the general guess at that time was that it would take around 7-8 average nationalist regiments to beat 1 of their japanese counterparts, granted that the Chinese regements are usually not as full as the Japanese were .. that's still a pretty bad matchup. Though later on when the American aids started to flow through and the Japanese army started to deteriot in many areas. the match up soon fliped.

The Chinese navy was pretty much on land right after the war started until the end, as their crafts were sunked quiet fast (And many sunked themself in attempts to block river passages or simply to deny the Japanese of the crafts) and their roles mostly existed as sabatoge missions on Japanese convoys and patrols up and down the Yangtsi (so they were more like spies than sailors :| )

RollingWave
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Post by RollingWave » 08 Mar 2006 08:25

The communist got off easier cause they weren't viewed as the main target and was basically just "watched" by Japanese troops instead of actually attacked.

Then again the communist didn't make much of a push either, instead just harrased and raided the japanese troops around their territory, (parts of northern China mostly), basically they got the same treatment of lesser warlords, there were a couple of those warlord groups that were basically independent from the war (or at least not totally commited.. Shang Xi and Xing Jian was a good example of this...), and the Japanese usually just kepted a watch on them instead of actually going full out to annihilated them... and in fact the "troops" sent to watch these warlords and communist were often second rate armed/trained troops that were closer to military police than an actual army. Also, the communst structure at that time was different than the Nationalist, in the sense that part of their "army" were actually their farmers / workers / civilians, as they were running their territory as a whole , so the degree of armenment for Communist "armies" may be deceptive... as your certainly not going to arm your "farmers" with much more than old rifles and maybe even spears.

On the other hand the Nationalist troops did face a Japanese army that was bent on annihilating them... and had little options except to face the Japanese head on.

The lack of heavy weapons was indeed the biggest problem for the Chinese armies at that time, as others have meantioned, the heaviest weapon for most Nationalist troops at that time were mortars... There were only a limited amount of divions that had artilliery while the number of tanks were certainly even lower.

I recall that the general guess at that time was that it would take around 7-8 average nationalist regiments to beat 1 of their japanese counterparts, granted that the Chinese regements are usually not as full as the Japanese were .. that's still a pretty bad matchup. Though later on when the American aids started to flow through and the Japanese army started to deteriot in many areas. the match up soon fliped.

The Chinese navy was pretty much on land right after the war started until the end, as their crafts were sunked quiet fast (And many sunked themself in attempts to block river passages or simply to deny the Japanese of the crafts) and their roles mostly existed as sabatoge missions on Japanese convoys and patrols up and down the Yangtsi (so they were more like spies than sailors :| )

Tycoon2002
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Post by Tycoon2002 » 20 Apr 2006 11:57

Image


Image

Image

Some more photos I found of German trained units in Shanghai 1937.

lorra
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Post by lorra » 20 Apr 2006 12:39

Tycoon2002 wrote:
mars wrote:
Tycoon2002 wrote: Before American intervention the Chinese airforce was almost non exsistent.



"Gao zhi hang"(高志航) the famous Chinese airforce pilot.

lorra
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Post by lorra » 20 Apr 2006 12:53

George Van Amber wrote:from what I read over the years the Chinese armies were ragtag units.



All japanese forces would attack throughout the pacific ocan if without the communist forces.

babyblue
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Post by babyblue » 16 Jun 2006 19:21

lorra wrote:
George Van Amber wrote:from what I read over the years the Chinese armies were ragtag units.



All japanese forces would attack throughout the pacific ocan if without the communist forces.
Without the Chinese army holding them up, yes. Without the communist forces? :roll: I don't think so.

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