Sino-German cooperation 1911-1941

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mars
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Post by mars » 12 Feb 2006 19:43

Windward wrote:
mars wrote: Not true too, German sold much more weapon to Italy, Finland, Rumania, Hungary and Crotia etc. then thoes they sold to china
According to the memoir of Ting Fu Chenh 丁福成, Chinese manager of the main vendor of German military and industrial materials in China, the Carlowitz & Co., it imported more than 270,000,000 RM (around 108,000,000 dollars) weapons and other German stuff from 1931 to 1937. I don't think Croatia or Roumania could afford it. So I'll appreciate if you can share us your source which says Germany sold more weapons to Crotia than to China. :lol:
you could find some info related to Geram's aid to Romania here:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/

About Crotia, without German's aid, there would be no Crotia at the first place, Crotia army, airforce and navy were created with German's help. Does free aids count ?

By the way, I do not think German aid to china in 30's made such a big deal in the sino-Japanese war, German cut the aid after the war broke out, and German weapon worn out in 1-2 years, it was mostly American weapon and then Soviet weapon helped us lot during the war period.

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Windward
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Post by Windward » 13 Feb 2006 04:25

Steen Ammentorp wrote:The problem with this is of course this part ...other German stuff... which good be anything from match sticks to air planes. It does not really prove the thesis that Germany sold more weapons to China than anyother nation. However I agree that it would be good to see some sources and I think that especially zstar will have to come up with someones that support his claim.

Kind Regards
Steen Ammentorp
Well, I can provide you an almost full list of "other German stuff", you can compare the amount with the total sum

36 Krupp locomotives, 3,150,000 RM
railway equipment, 7,500,000 RM
optical components and equipment, roughly 7,500,000 RM
AEG searchlight and generators, 4,500,000 RM
microscope, 600,000 RM
surgical instruments, 1,500,000 RM
observatory instruments, 2,500,000 RM
motorcycle(BMW & DKW), 250,000 RM
lathe, grinder, drill press, and cutting tool, around 7,500,000 RM

total: 35,000,000 RM

you can see 35 million is only 14% of 270 million, and don't forget searchlights, motorcycles and surgical instruments were all for military purpose.

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Windward
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Post by Windward » 13 Feb 2006 04:32

mars wrote:Not true too, German sold much more weapon to ... and Crotia etc. then thoes they sold to china
mars wrote: About Crotia, without German's aid, there would be no Crotia at the first place, Crotia army, airforce and navy were created with German's help. Does free aids count ?
Well, good question. I have nothing to say.

So do you think German sold Croats those "free aids"? :lol:

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 16 Feb 2006 09:06

Windward wrote: According to the memoir of Ting Fu Chenh 丁福成, Chinese manager of the main vendor of German military and industrial materials in China, the Carlowitz & Co., it imported more than 270,000,000 RM (around 108,000,000 dollars) weapons and other German stuff from 1931 to 1937. I don't think Croatia or Roumania could afford it. So I'll appreciate if you can share us your source which says Germany sold more weapons to Crotia than to China. :lol:
Actually, Romania could very afford it. Only between 1941-43, imports from Germany exceeded exports there with 16 billion ROL. At the exchange rate presented by Christian here, that would mean 267,200,000 DEM. And this is only the difference between imports and exports. If we were to add the value of the several million tons of oil, agricultural goods etc exported in those years, the sum will increase substantially. Obviously, not all of it were weapons. Romania also imported coal, iron, dyes, sythethic rubber, tractors, which usually went into the war production or agriculture.

Chineseboy
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Post by Chineseboy » 23 Feb 2006 05:05

during the 1925-1927, the National Party (NP) was united with the Chinese Communist Party(CCP), at that time, the Chinese National Army(国民革命军)mainly used USSR weapons and military system.

but after 12n April, 1927, the Union between NP and CCP were ruptured, than the NP turn to search the military aid from Germany instead of USSR.

from 1935-1938, there are about 20 Chinese divisions accept portion German weapons and under the trainning of German officer.

but actually, only the divisions list below fully under the trainning of German officer and equipted many German designed but Chinese made weapons:

3rd, 6th, 9th, 14th, 36th, 87th, 88th, "Central military academy indoctrination division"(中央军校教导总队) and a very special force " Taxation police regiment" (税警总团)which actually is a division not regiment, however it uses regiment as the name.

these divisions from 1,5000 men to 30,000men, armed with "zhongzheng" rifle(Chinese made K98) ZB-26 machine guns and little German artilleries.

from 1931 to 1938, these " German style" divisons played very important role in resistance of Japanese invasion in Northen China, Shanghai, and the Yangtze river delta.

after 1938, the Germany stoped the aids and the Chinese restart to accept portion USSR weapons again, and after the pearl Harbour, started to accept the US
weapon.

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