Typical Small Arms?

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Rivet
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Typical Small Arms?

Post by Rivet » 16 Jun 2012 04:48

Hello. I am curious, what were the typical small arms employed by the Croatian forces? I've looked at many of the standard sources but am not turning up much.

Thanks for any info. :)
"Good actions ennoble us, and we are the sons of our deeds."—Miguel de Cervantes

matija191
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by matija191 » 21 Jun 2012 19:02

In the beginning of war the two most common types of sub-machine guns were Steyer-Solothurn SL 100 and MP 41; after the capitulation of Italy there is also a large proportion of Beretta sub-machine guns; in the last period of war MP 40 was the common thing in the inventary of almost every elite croatian unit.There were also a small numbers of finnish Suomi M.1931 and I saw a picture of croatian soldiers, on the general retreat in May 1945., armed (among other things) with two Stg.44.

Trackhead M2
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by Trackhead M2 » 21 Jun 2012 22:35

matija191 wrote:In the beginning of war the two most common types of sub-machine guns were Steyer-Solothurn SL 100 and MP 41; after the capitulation of Italy there is also a large proportion of Beretta sub-machine guns; in the last period of war MP 40 was the common thing in the inventary of almost every elite croatian unit.There were also a small numbers of finnish Suomi M.1931 and I saw a picture of croatian soldiers, on the general retreat in May 1945., armed (among other things) with two Stg.44.
Dear m,
Wouldn't there have been a wide variety of Mausers, Mannlichers, Mannlicher Carcanos, and a salting of OSS/SOE US and British weapons? In the Forgotten 500, there are references of Chetnik forces and Partisans helping them selves to M2 0.50 Brownings from crashed American Bombers.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

Animal
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by Animal » 22 Jun 2012 05:47

Trackhead M2 wrote:
matija191 wrote:In the beginning of war the two most common types of sub-machine guns were Steyer-Solothurn SL 100 and MP 41; after the capitulation of Italy there is also a large proportion of Beretta sub-machine guns; in the last period of war MP 40 was the common thing in the inventary of almost every elite croatian unit.There were also a small numbers of finnish Suomi M.1931 and I saw a picture of croatian soldiers, on the general retreat in May 1945., armed (among other things) with two Stg.44.
Dear m,
Wouldn't there have been a wide variety of Mausers, Mannlichers, Mannlicher Carcanos, and a salting of OSS/SOE US and British weapons? In the Forgotten 500, there are references of Chetnik forces and Partisans helping them selves to M2 0.50 Brownings from crashed American Bombers.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2
Being as the Croat forces' rifles mostly came from pre-war Yugoslav stocks, which included WWI Austro-Hungarian Mannlichers, French Lebels and Mannlicher Berthiers, Serbian and Turkish Mausers, Russian Mosin-Nagants, and more recent Czech-made Mausers....

Trackhead M2
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by Trackhead M2 » 22 Jun 2012 21:34

Animal wrote:
Trackhead M2 wrote:
matija191 wrote:In the beginning of war the two most common types of sub-machine guns were Steyer-Solothurn SL 100 and MP 41; after the capitulation of Italy there is also a large proportion of Beretta sub-machine guns; in the last period of war MP 40 was the common thing in the inventary of almost every elite croatian unit.There were also a small numbers of finnish Suomi M.1931 and I saw a picture of croatian soldiers, on the general retreat in May 1945., armed (among other things) with two Stg.44.
Dear m,
Wouldn't there have been a wide variety of Mausers, Mannlichers, Mannlicher Carcanos, and a salting of OSS/SOE US and British weapons? In the Forgotten 500, there are references of Chetnik forces and Partisans helping them selves to M2 0.50 Brownings from crashed American Bombers.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2
Being as the Croat forces' rifles mostly came from pre-war Yugoslav stocks, which included WWI Austro-Hungarian Mannlichers, French Lebels and Mannlicher Berthiers, Serbian and Turkish Mausers, Russian Mosin-Nagants, and more recent Czech-made Mausers....
Dear Big A,
How did the Lebels and Mannlicher Berthiers wind up down there? The others all make sense.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

Vuk
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by Vuk » 26 Jun 2012 12:38

The French small arms were part of the rebuilding of the Serbian army after the retreat to Corfu and later on the Macedonian front by the French during WW1

Trackhead M2
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by Trackhead M2 » 26 Jun 2012 17:52

Vuk wrote:The French small arms were part of the rebuilding of the Serbian army after the retreat to Corfu and later on the Macedonian front by the French during WW1
Dear Big V,
Did any Chauchat Auto Rifles or Hotchkiss MGs make it into the mix? If they did it was probably to the chagrin of the Serbs.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

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Rivet
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by Rivet » 27 Jun 2012 15:38

Wowzer, that is quite the hodgepodge of weaponry. Thanks all for the info.

Tangentially, would anyone have pictures related to armed Croatian soldiers? Thanks. :)
"Good actions ennoble us, and we are the sons of our deeds."—Miguel de Cervantes

Vuk
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by Vuk » 28 Jun 2012 01:54

Trackhead M2 wrote:
Vuk wrote:The French small arms were part of the rebuilding of the Serbian army after the retreat to Corfu and later on the Macedonian front by the French during WW1
Dear Big V,
Did any Chauchat Auto Rifles or Hotchkiss MGs make it into the mix? If they did it was probably to the chagrin of the Serbs.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2
I do belive they were part of the package

matija191
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by matija191 » 28 Jun 2012 15:01

Rivet wrote:Wowzer, that is quite the hodgepodge of weaponry. Thanks all for the info.

Tangentially, would anyone have pictures related to armed Croatian soldiers? Thanks. :)
Here are two pictures from second battle of Koprivnica (1944.).Soldiers are armed with MG34 and Kar.98:

http://i54.tinypic.com/16k0zv6.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/10yhuu9.jpg

matija191
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by matija191 » 28 Jun 2012 15:19

Trackhead M2 wrote:
matija191 wrote:In the beginning of war the two most common types of sub-machine guns were Steyer-Solothurn SL 100 and MP 41; after the capitulation of Italy there is also a large proportion of Beretta sub-machine guns; in the last period of war MP 40 was the common thing in the inventary of almost every elite croatian unit.There were also a small numbers of finnish Suomi M.1931 and I saw a picture of croatian soldiers, on the general retreat in May 1945., armed (among other things) with two Stg.44.
Dear m,
Wouldn't there have been a wide variety of Mausers, Mannlichers, Mannlicher Carcanos, and a salting of OSS/SOE US and British weapons? In the Forgotten 500, there are references of Chetnik forces and Partisans helping them selves to M2 0.50 Brownings from crashed American Bombers.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2
Yes, you are right.I somehow misinterpreted "small arms" for automatic small arms :oops: .

Anyway, Croats used:

Rifles - yugoslav M.24
- belgian M.24
- german Kar.98 (WW1 and WW2 versions)
- austro-hungarian Mannlicher M95
- italian Carcanos, various variants
- french Lebel M.1907/15 (for non-combat units, such as DRS)

MGs: - german MG34 and MG42
- czech Zbrojovka vz.26 and vz.37
- danish Madsen
- italian Breda modello 30
- french Chatellerault Mle 1924/29
- german Knorr-Bremse MG35

Miscellaneous: - Panzerfaust FP I. and FP II.

Trackhead M2
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by Trackhead M2 » 28 Jun 2012 15:35

Vuk wrote:
Trackhead M2 wrote:
Vuk wrote:The French small arms were part of the rebuilding of the Serbian army after the retreat to Corfu and later on the Macedonian front by the French during WW1
Dear Big V,
Did any Chauchat Auto Rifles or Hotchkiss MGs make it into the mix? If they did it was probably to the chagrin of the Serbs.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2
I do belive they were part of the package
Dear Big V,
Too bad.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

zagreb29
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by zagreb29 » 22 Jul 2012 10:01

matija191 wrote:In the beginning of war the two most common types of sub-machine guns were Steyer-Solothurn SL 100 and MP 41; after the capitulation of Italy there is also a large proportion of Beretta sub-machine guns; in the last period of war MP 40 was the common thing in the inventary of almost every elite croatian unit.There were also a small numbers of finnish Suomi M.1931 and I saw a picture of croatian soldiers, on the general retreat in May 1945., armed (among other things) with two Stg.44.
Matija,

What information did you obtain that NDH got Suomi M-1931s? I ask because Ive read that Finninsh uniforms
were used as well by the NDH.

Zagreb

Trackhead M2
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by Trackhead M2 » 28 Jul 2012 15:17

zagreb29 wrote:
matija191 wrote:In the beginning of war the two most common types of sub-machine guns were Steyer-Solothurn SL 100 and MP 41; after the capitulation of Italy there is also a large proportion of Beretta sub-machine guns; in the last period of war MP 40 was the common thing in the inventary of almost every elite croatian unit.There were also a small numbers of finnish Suomi M.1931 and I saw a picture of croatian soldiers, on the general retreat in May 1945., armed (among other things) with two Stg.44.
Matija,

What information did you obtain that NDH got Suomi M-1931s? I ask because Ive read that Finninsh uniforms
were used as well by the NDH.

Zagreb
Dear z,
How were there enough Finnish uniforms to have surplus to share?
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

zagreb29
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Re: Typical Small Arms?

Post by zagreb29 » 29 Jul 2012 01:56

TH-M2,

Not sure what your asking. Are you assuming Finland did not have extra uniforms to send to Croatia? In late
1944 Germany sent of 100,000 sets of M-43 unfiroms to the NDH and Ustahsa. In the book FOR CROATIA & CHRIST: THE CROATIAN ARMY IN WORLD WAR II 1941-1945 , it sate's that in the winter of 1944-1945 the NDH recieved a large batch of Finnish unifroms. Not hard to believe since all photographic evidence shows a huge variety of different uniforms used for both NDH and Ustasha soldiers.

Zagreb

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