Fix flying wing stability issues?

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Yodasgrandad
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Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby Yodasgrandad » 11 Sep 2017 15:37

Was it ever possible to fix the Horten flying wing stability issues during the time period if Germany had the time and means to do so or is a complicated type of aircraft that would have to wait decades until computerised controls came along to help with like the B2 bomber for example?

And would it more or less have the same performance as the ME-262 for say intercepting bombers or dogfighting?

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby T. A. Gardner » 11 Sep 2017 19:41

I doubt it. Northrop in the US had similar stability problems with jet flying wings. Adding a tail fin, or fins, didn't fully fix the problem either. I'd also suspect that had the Go 229 been tested more the Germans would have found issues with the roll rate and stability of the roll. Other similar aircraft tended to "dutch roll" rather than roll smoothly like a conventional aircraft design.

Image

Both the XB-49 and XP-79 by Northrop had serious stability issues even with tails and fences added for better stability.

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Gorque
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby Gorque » 11 Sep 2017 21:01

Horten scale Glider:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sXjxt4ajvg

Horten Nurflügel (Flying Wing) Panek Ultralight 10:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to3_zToZrLA

Scale model of HO-229 @ 3:00 minute mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcbbs1YlQvc

maltesefalcon
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby maltesefalcon » 13 Sep 2017 01:08

Seriously, how many were built in the last few months of the war? Three or four possibly?

What is the point of worrying about stability issues from an aircraft that could not possibly be built in sufficient numbers to affect the wars outcome at all?

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Gorque
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby Gorque » 13 Sep 2017 01:39

maltesefalcon wrote:Seriously, how many were built in the last few months of the war? Three or four possibly?

What is the point of worrying about stability issues from an aircraft that could not possibly be built in sufficient numbers to affect the wars outcome at all?


Hi Maltesefalcon:

From what I understand there were only 2 engined prototypes. One crashed after an engine caught fire and the other never flew.

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby T. A. Gardner » 13 Sep 2017 04:42

maltesefalcon wrote:Seriously, how many were built in the last few months of the war? Three or four possibly?

What is the point of worrying about stability issues from an aircraft that could not possibly be built in sufficient numbers to affect the wars outcome at all?


The prototypes only made a couple of low speed flights with the landing gear fixed down so the stability at high speed was never even tested.

maltesefalcon
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby maltesefalcon » 13 Sep 2017 23:26

Lets add in the fact that by the time the prototypes were being tested, Germany was desperate for fuel and pilots. The Allies actually captured some fairly new ME-262 near the wars end for that reason. They were pretty good aircraft, yet these ones made no contribution due to other factors. Same issues for Horten even if they could make a few dozen by May 1945.

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby T. A. Gardner » 14 Sep 2017 00:01

maltesefalcon wrote:Lets add in the fact that by the time the prototypes were being tested, Germany was desperate for fuel and pilots. The Allies actually captured some fairly new ME-262 near the wars end for that reason. They were pretty good aircraft, yet these ones made no contribution due to other factors. Same issues for Horten even if they could make a few dozen by May 1945.


The US and Britain never tried to fly one of the Hortens. They flew the Me 262 and He 162 after the war in tests, but not the Go 229. So, we really don't know how it would have handled and can only speculate based on other similar aircraft designs. Since all of these had stability problems at higher speeds when jet propelled, it's likely that the Go 229 would have too.

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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby Carl Schwamberger » 14 Sep 2017 03:48

I wondering if anyone did any wind tunnel tests on models of these. Also if any RC modelers have attempted these aircraft?

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Gorque
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby Gorque » 14 Sep 2017 04:25

Some links to an interesting National Geographic documentary on creating a full-scale HO-229 for radar testing;

Part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-shkjYEzcE

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDYwtPY-MWs

Part 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knE8p_J1LRA

Yodasgrandad
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby Yodasgrandad » 14 Sep 2017 15:51

I'm looking forward to the one they're restoring over in America! Not sure if the wings will be added to it or not?

I made this one a few weeks ago (Ignore Ju 88A-1) wasn't sure about the paint scheme however but I imagine it would be something similar to what I've done

20141026_07.jpg


20141026_02.jpg


20141026_06.jpg


20141026_01.jpg
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maltesefalcon
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby maltesefalcon » 15 Sep 2017 03:43

The moderators have been asleep at the switch for months this sub-forum. So now we are basically looking at something that should either be locked, moved to the Luftwaffe sub-forum or the Modelling one.

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Gorque
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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby Gorque » 15 Sep 2017 17:58

FWIW, this is a "What If' sub-forum and because of this, I believe that the moderators allow for greater leeway as compared to other, more historically centered sub-forums. This added leeway, IMHO, fosters enhanced dialogue and creativity. Prior to this thread, I knew very little of the HO-229 and the postings of other posters had piqued my curiosity regarding this airplane.

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Re: Fix flying wing stability issues?

Postby Carl Schwamberger » 16 Sep 2017 00:20

The radar tests were really interesting. I'd seen extracts from those before. Would of course still like to see some wind tunnel tests. With that data the numbers might be run that would suggest the actual stability?


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