What if the Soviet Union joins the Axis in 1941 and declares war on the British

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today.
Richard Anderson
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Re: What if the Soviet Union joins the Axis in 1941 and declares war on the British

Postby Richard Anderson » 18 Sep 2017 18:23

jesk wrote:On May 24 near Dunkirk were 1,6,8, Viking, Tottenkopf panzer divisions.16 -23 May tanks passed hundreds of kilometers. Hitler stopped them.


Minor correction..."Viking" did not exist then, The division marked as SS-"V" was the SS-Verfügungs-Division, which was motorized infantry, cobbled together with Czech equipment and weapons. No tanks, but a few armored cars.

Nor was Totenkopf a "Panzer Division" or even "Panzergrenadier". It too was a motorized infantry formation quickly thrown together from concentration camp guards and of relatively poor quality at that time...notorious for having "run away" during the Franco-British counterattack at Arras.

Notice also the indications of "Tle." on the map, which denotes "Teile" or "parts". Those divisions were considerably scattered during the pursuit to the Channel. SS-V did gain a small bridgehead over the canal at La Bassée-Kanal near St. Venant and Guerbecque, but then spent the next four days trying to get a bridge in during violent counterattacks by the British and French. IIRC, 1., 6., and 8. Panzer had little or no success in gaining bridgeheads over the canal, Hitler order or not.

jesk
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Re: What if the Soviet Union joins the Axis in 1941 and declares war on the British

Postby jesk » 18 Sep 2017 18:45

Richard Anderson wrote: IIRC, 1., 6., and 8. Panzer had little or no success in gaining bridgeheads over the canal, Hitler order or not.


The map is for the 26th of May. There's no sign of wanting to strike along the canal to Dunkirk.

Image

jesk
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Re: What if the Soviet Union joins the Axis in 1941 and declares war on the British

Postby jesk » 18 Sep 2017 18:58

The arrows on the map are not realized desires of German generals. :(

CannonFodder95
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Re: What if the Soviet Union joins the Axis in 1941 and declares war on the British

Postby CannonFodder95 » 16 May 2018 14:11

Just about guaranteed Axis victory if the alliance holds up, doubtful but an interesting what if. The axis could easily strike the Middle East now, the USSR might supply Germany with oil. Britain's darkest hour would grow darker as they are now facing not only almost all of a german occupied Europe but the USSR which could easily attack the Middle East and possibly even take the Suez Canal.

thaddeus_c
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Re: What if the Soviet Union joins the Axis in 1941 and declares war on the British

Postby thaddeus_c » 16 May 2018 22:46

one point, Subhas Chandra Bose first went to USSR and tried to return there later as Japan collapsed. so it is at least possible the Soviets could decide to sponsor the Indian Nationalists?

which would be a nightmare for British to divert attention TO India rather than draw men and materials FROM there to wage WWII?


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