SBD's with well trained USN aviators were the only effective weapons against IJN fleet carriers in the US arsenal in June 1942. B-17's were near to completely ineffective against moving targets if using high level bombing tactics, and TBD's suffered from defective torpedoes and obsolescence - they were too slow. TBF's - the Avengers - were a formidable attack platform and once US torpedoes were made more reliable, were lethal. TBF's were at Midway, but only half a dozen based on the island.Richard Anderson wrote: ↑27 Jan 2020, 20:24It is not a "'what if' discussion" it is your latest nonsensical hobbyhorse on a par with your scheme of how B-17s and TBD's as level bombers were the best way to destroy the Kido Butai.
If examining tactics from a 'what if' perspective, later in the war USAAF bombers adapted skip bombing tactics, which were considerably more lethal than level bombing tactics. But this was after Midway. In terms of the TBD's, I doubt under USN doctrine existent in June 1942 they'd have ever been used in the level bombing role against carriers.
When Soryu's upper works were blown to smithereens by hanger explosions just after she was bombed, exactly where do you propose all that debris went?Plotting the locations of the wreckage will tell you where the wreckage is, it will not tell you where the ships were when attacked or what their orientation was.
The relative position of the ships when attacked is what matters. If Soryu was east of Akagi when bombed, then Leslie's VB-3 was the only squadron to have attacked it because VB-3 came in the furthest east. Best therefore will have bombed the Akagi. But, if Soryu was northwest of Akagi when bombed as shown in the Nagumo Report, then Leslie could not have attacked the Soryu because to do that he would have had to fly straight over the Akagi to reach it. (You made this exact argument upthread and you are correct - Leslie did not overfly any carrier). In this case the pilot that sank the Soryu would have to have flown over either the Akagi or the Kaga. No one flew over Akagi to attack a carrier beyond. But, Richard Best flew over the Kaga to attack a carrier beyond. Therefore, if Soryu is northwest of Akag when bombed, Best attacked the Soryu and Leslie of Yorktown sank the Akagi. This possibility is evident from a glance at the carrier positions shown on the Nagumo Report action track.
FYI, there are a second set of coordinates given for the sinking location of the Japanese carriers, not shown on the Action track. In this alternative set, (which you can see in Lord's Incredible Victory), the Soryu's sinking position is shown far to the east of Akagi's. If these coordinates are indeed correct, this would be absolute proof that Yorktown bombed the Soryu, as she is too far east for Enterprise to have possibly reached her.
The three carriers in question drifted some distance from their attack positions to their sinking positions.
With the Kaga, it's attack position could be identified because one of its attackers was shot down during the attack, and will be resting on the sea bed within some hundreds of yards from its crash location. If this SBD is found, it is the location of the attack on Kaga, (and will confirm absolutely that McClusky's group did indeed attack the Kaga).
With Akagi, since you seem to have great interest with Fuchida's account of the battle, the attack location of the Akagi will either be strewn with planes and plane debris blown overboard from the flight deck by the bomb hits from the point of attack towards the point of sinking, or it will not. If not, then since the wreck is known to be upright on the sea floor, with the flight deck in large part missing, then the examination of its wreckage should be able to tell whether all or some of the strike aircraft were in the hanger or on deck. If the debris field is strewn with B5N2's, then Fuchida's account is correct. If it is not, and their wreckage is in the hanger below the burned remains of the flight deck, then Fuchida's account was not truthful. Either way, we may know this year.
With Soryu, as per above this ship apparently suffered massive chain explosions inside its hanger immediately after being bombed, meaning that there will be a debris field of the material thrown into the sea by these explosions practically at the point of its bomb location