Nope, I made a specific statement based upon the data. In four years the Germans produced 43,000 tons of aviation fuels from crude, 165,000 tons from benzol, and 4,544,000 tons from the Bergius process.TheMarcksPlan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2020 06:13Sure you have the right reading of the Oil Division report? You seem to have inferred that the Germans were incapable of refining avgas from crude as a general matter but that’s not how I read the report. Here’s the passage I suspect you’re fixing on:”Richard Anderson” wrote: the Germans only obtained fractional amounts of their required aviation fuel from crude.
That statement may be susceptible to different interpretations but I read it as a feedstock issue rather than a technical capabilities issue. It would be odd for the Germans to have been able to make avgas from coal but not from oil. IIRC German/Austrian crude was describe as “waxy” – too heavy to be refined efficiently into avgas.None of the crude oils available yielded aviation grade gasoline, so the Germans counted on their synthetic oil industry
Yes, German and Austrian crude was waxy and unsuitable for production of aviation gas. Worse, for the Germans, they decided in 1933 to invest all out in the synthetic program. What lost out? The refinery industry. The best summary of the issues I know of is Raymond G. Stokes, "The Oil Industry in Nazi Germany, 1936-1945", The Business History Review, Vol. 59, No. 2 (Summer, 1985), pp. 254-277.
Not if the crude was unsuitable for processing as aviation fuel.As the report discusses, producing lubricating oils via synthetic means was extremely difficult; the use of crude was more efficient.
Cost and time. The comparable American wartime emergency construction was the Cheyenne 100-octane refinery, built for a cost of $8-million, double the original April 1943 estimate, which began production two years later, also double the original estimate. I also doubt that German technical refining proficiency was all that up to snuff, given in 1940 there were essentially five locations in the world producing 100-octane aviation fuel, three Esso refineries (two in the States and one on Aruba), processing high-grade crude from Venezuela, the Anglo-Iranian Oil refinery at Abadan, and the Shell refinery in Borneo.What about the kerosene etc. distilled in the process of obtaining lubricating oil? Presumably this went on, partially, to produce the several thousand tons of avgas obtained annually from refineries. While this amount is a mere rounding error in German avgas supply, one cannot turn crude oil into several thousand tons of avgas by accident. This fact alone suggests German technical refining proficiency.
Sure, in theory you could turn all the Bergius plant to producing aviation gasoline, assuming then you have enough of a supply from the Fischer-Tropsch plants, plus crude from Romania and, somehow, from the Caucasian fields...except it still isn't likely to be enough for what is needed. 1943, 3.431 million tons, 286,000 tons per month. ItAnother import piece of context is the utilization of Bergius hydrogenation plants. While these plants were indeed the primary source of German avgas, at peak production their output was only 55% avgas.
I could have sworn you recently said the Germans after victory in the USSR would have no problem tripling their aircraft production, thus exceeding US production? Why produce so many planes if they aren't going to use them?(snip) Nope. A statement that my ATL needs America-level fuel budget was made by Peter89 but not endorsed by TMP.
Um, 1940-1944 the Germans produced about 4.7 million tons of aviation gasoline, what did they do with the rest of the 2.7 million tons? Meanwhile, in the real world they also curtailed flight training to an extraordinary degree. The USAAF consumed 9,707,109,000 gallons 1 January 1943-31 August 1945...call it around 305-million tons. Of that, 3,063,930 gallons were consumed in theaters of war.The LW never significantly exceeded a 2mil mt avgas budget. The U.S. apparently burned 80mil tons of avgas (whence the stats, btw? I’d love a reference to browse). The LW was still performing decently, per pilot/plane, in 1943 and into 1944 so maintenance of those OTL quality levels is all that I require. My ATL envisions ~5x 1943’s plane production. If my ATL 1944 requires 5x 1943’s total OTL LW fuel budget that’s ~10mil tons. In many aspects of WW2 America was lavish with resources (human and physical) to a suboptimal degree.
The Germans could not maintain quality levels without putting a major effort into the training program, which had atrophied to an alarming degree by 1942...periodically drafting the advanced flying schools personnel into operational status for things like MERKUR didn't help. The reality is that in 1943 the only thing that held the Luftwaffe together in the West was the experienced Jagdwaffe, most of the pilots coming out of the training system and put into operations had fewer hours than USAAF pilots graduating from primary flight school.
Heathen.The most general level of description at which my family could be called homogenous is center-right. Mostly Republican but anti-Trump but for Grandpa, who still has a Bush/Cheney 2004 sticker on his car. I’m a far left outlier on our spectrum. I endorse their vision of family and friendship, their sports allegiances and food/recreation preferences. On more abstract issues we disagree.
Not to be needlessly garrulous but Go White Sox! Wrigley is the best open-air drinking establishment in a city chock full of them but for most of my life serious baseball fandom required a trip to the South Side. My neighborhood is fun when the Cubs are winning but some Cubs “fans” might ask who the quarterback is...
Yeah, worst part of Covid and the idiotic lack of response is the killing of travel...we planned a trip to Chicago and friends in Michigan for September and were hoping to make it to Chicago again after the birth of my first - surprise - granddaughter in December. F___ Trump for screwing things up so badly.Nice places, know both well. My nephews are just up the highway from Mount Prospect.
Anyway, big day tomorrow and I'm falling asleep, so this is probably disjointed again.