1945- Soviets continue the drive west!

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Xanthro
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#61

Post by Xanthro » 09 Feb 2003, 05:48

Korbius wrote:
LeoAU wrote: Do you think it would or might've been used the way Soviets used, I mean if US suffers a million+ casualties, you think they would keep on sending man to that distant war? Think about Vietnam.
Why does everyone mention Vietnam here for the US casualties? Whats ur point, that people in the SU didn't care about their soldiers and they were just robots to be used in expanding SU? Tariq Aziz and Mullah Omar said the same thing as u did about US not affording casualties and guess what, in both cases US went and kicked a*s, no matter what it would take. If US goes full throttle on something, it always achieves its goal, unlike Vietnam which was a "limited war"
The reason people mention it is because they think the US lost the war because of casualties. Simply not true. Korea was far worse during the time of the fighting, yet the US citizens continued to support it.

What lost Vietnam had nothing to do with the battlefield, it had to do with why we were fighting.

The only reason was to contain Communism, and this was seen as a great threat, and one worthy of dying for. Then in 1968 the people of Czechoslovakia decided to raise up against communist oppression, the US stood by and did nothing.

It's hard to advocate that it is worthly for your sons to die in Vietnam, a country most had never heard of much less cared about, in order to stop communism, when you don't try to stop it at all in Europe.

Vietnam wasn't lost in the jungles of Southeast Asia, but in the streets of Prague.

Xanthro

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Korbius
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#62

Post by Korbius » 09 Feb 2003, 12:56

Xanthro wrote: It's hard to advocate that it is worthly for your sons to die in Vietnam, a country most had never heard of much less cared about, in order to stop communism, when you don't try to stop it at all in Europe.

Vietnam wasn't lost in the jungles of Southeast Asia, but in the streets of Prague.

Xanthro
Vietnam gave the Soviets a reason to act against any country since US was fighting against Vietnam, so SU decided to knock back in the line Czechoslovakia. The same case with the Suez crisis where Britain, France and Israel attacked Egypt and SU moved in Hungary to stop the revolution over there.


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Madsen
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#63

Post by Madsen » 10 Feb 2003, 00:53

Hi LeoAu. Sorry for posting twice :oops:
Sitat:
You laugh about the supply problems and other issues that are statet here. You neglect the fact that no army has successfully advanced without total air domination..
Plenty examples! Germans as well as Soviets advanced without achieving total air superiority many times. Some people will say that Soviet captured Belrin without having total air domination, but they did it.
the Red Army fought very well on the eastern front. but in the last stages of the war 44-45 they got air superiority from the Allied side.
the allied bomber force would strike every point where they could destroy communication lines and cut of supplys.
And you talk about how US MARINES Commandoes and the other SF would be defeated by Red Army, well in open combat perhaps.
But if you give US MARINES a landing/beachhead operation or Para's
a airborne operation they could mach almost everyone.
But that is when they are given spesific objects. In Arnhem they landed on a panzer div and that is too much for everyone i think.

And for Red Army AA, they was to ineffective against the faster types of planes. they proved well against the German Luftwaffe but as i can see. the german AA defence was allot better than Red Army's
and the German Flak couldnt stop allied bombers so i dont think the Sovjet AA could do that. German Flak was very good.
Btw Leo where is the town Belrin? :)

christopher nelson
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What if the soviets had continued the drive to the west

#64

Post by christopher nelson » 08 Aug 2005, 15:56

Without a doubt the soviets would be under attack from the joint allied bombing command. There is also the possibility that the allies would have told stalin to withdraw or face attack using a new weapon. Thus the first nuclear weapon might very well have be dropped on the Soviet union. Also the allies might have very well have started to rearm german units .

TRose
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#65

Post by TRose » 08 Aug 2005, 17:55

Soviet army might have been able to push to the Rhine river but then they would have been stoped cold. It would at best take them 2 weeks to reach the Rhine during which the Soviet airforce would have take a huge beating giving the allied air superiority. So first thing you are going to need is to establish air and artillary superiority over where you want to cross and build your bridge. Soviet arillary was good but then so was American and British and they are more advance then the Soviets in many ways. Add to tthe fact that there would be over a hundred allied division s from Swizerland to the North sea( Way shorter then the battlelines in the Eastern front) and you have a very heavy defended river.. Add again that the allied army was fully motorized and can repond to threats very quickly and I dont see the Red Army forceing a crossing

christopher nelson
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what if the soviets had continued their drive to the west

#66

Post by christopher nelson » 08 Aug 2005, 18:03

I doubt if the soviets would have been able to continue their drive in the face of overwhelming allied air superirity. The threat of the atomic bomb and its possible use on the soviet union would give stalin nightmares. In fact the attempt to drive west would have created a backlash thought the world and might hve ended up saving the japanese.

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