What if Germany invaded Turkey or made it Germany's satelite

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Ali Saka
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What if Germany invaded Turkey or made it Germany's satelite

Post by Ali Saka » 14 Dec 2002 10:36

After the Invasion of Balkans, Hitler had the chance to put much political pressure on Turkey. He had a big force in Balkans and Rommel's advance from the south seemed unstopable so Turkey was in danger of being attacked from two fronts. Turkey did not have the army to stand against Germany and British was not in a position to help them. So if Germany was more stubborn about Turkey's entrance to war, they might have suceed. In my opinion this is one of the biggest "what if"s of WW2. A lot of things would change if Turkey was in Axis camp.
1-Another front in Operation Barbarossa- Panzers could reach Caucasian oil much easily.
2-A chance to have whole British Middle East Army surrounded-With Rommel from south and another force from north.
3-Get the oil in Middle East
4-Support pro-Nazi governments in Iran, and Iraq
5-Chance to engage the British Army in India after Iran became Axis

I'd like to hear people's opinions about this topic

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Tim Smith
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Post by Tim Smith » 14 Dec 2002 18:59

Stalin would not have been happy about Hitler invading Turkey. Obviously with Turkey and the Black Sea under Axis control, the USSR's strategic position would be very vulnerable indeed. The USSR might well have come in on Turkey's side had Germany invaded in 1941, and that would make Germany's position much more precarious.

Even the Wehrmacht would have a hard time taking on the USSR and Turkey at once - that's a lot of ground to conquer.

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peter_suciu
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Slightly different What If

Post by peter_suciu » 15 Dec 2002 20:36

One "What If" I've thought about is if Greece is given Constantinople in 1919 by the Allies. Turkey loses it and has a huge resentment. This obviously changes the importance Greece plays in WWII.

Italy promises Turkey "The City" back (Istanbul basically is what the Turks thought the Greeks were saying when they took the city, they heard the Greeks saying "In the city," and in Greek it sounded like Istanbul"). Turkey is dragged into the war by the Italians and when the Germans come to the rescue they can now invade Russia through Turkey as well and even bring what remains of the Italian fleet into the Black Sea.

That's my "what if?"

Ali Saka
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Post by Ali Saka » 15 Dec 2002 21:08

1-We kicked Greece's ass in 1921 so it would not matter if Allies gave Istanbul to them; we would get it back
2-Turkey hated USSR so we would prefer to be with Germans instead of Soviets, so the result would be a Soviet attack on Germany&Turkey, and a certain USSR ddefeat like in Finland.

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peter_suciu
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Turkey and Greece

Post by peter_suciu » 15 Dec 2002 23:33

Yes Turkey did defeat Greece in 1921, but that was after a Greek invasion I believe. If the Allies divided Turkey and gave Constantinople to Greece I don't know if they would allow it to be taken back so easily.

And I do agree that the USSR would be in for a world of pain if they invaded Turkey, but I honestly think Stalin wouldn't have invaded first.

With Turkey in the Axis the Vichy French forces in the Middle East could get supplied from the North, and Rommel could be leading a Middle East Korp instead of Afrika Korp as the battle takes place in Palestine.

More importantly I think Stalin was asleep at the wheel. He was surprised by the German invasion and I think this would still be the case with the Germans invading through Turkey as well as from Europe.

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nasdaq7
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What if Germany invaded Turkey or made it Germany's satelite

Post by nasdaq7 » 17 Dec 2002 01:52

It is possible that Hitler could have done more to persuade
Turkey to enter the war with Russia - he should have formed
more alliances. Turkey together with Germany and Austria-Hungary fought against England, France and Russia during the First
World War. Turkey had a score to settle with all three, especially
Russia.

I don't think Hitler wanted to invade Turkey. Strategically it made
more sense... but Hitler had an ideological rift with Russia.

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GFM2000
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Re: What if Germany invaded Turkey or made it Germany's sate

Post by GFM2000 » 17 Dec 2002 06:12

nasdaq7 wrote:I don't think Hitler wanted to invade Turkey. Strategically it made more sense... but Hitler had an ideological rift with Russia.
It is my guess too that Hitler did not grasp the global strategy for his German empire. He was oblivious by 1941, something which may be attributed by the stunning successes by the Wehrmacht (especially the rapid collapse of Yugoslavia and Greece in 1941). Moreover, Molotov's continuous prodding has started to wear Hitler down, which also prompted Hitler to committing to Barbarossa sooner rather than later. By the time Admiral Raeder presented the "Grand Plan" to Hitler in early 1942 (calling for Rommel to push to the Suez and into the Middle East, and the Eastern Army swinging south through the caucasus and Turkey), it was already too late.
:D

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Sam H.
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Post by Sam H. » 17 Dec 2002 21:42

If Turkey had willingly joined the Axis in 1941, then Germany is in a much better position to both invade Russia and to invade Iraq, Iran, Syrias, et al. The British are in a tough position.

If German gets Turkey's aid and desides to wait a year to invade Russia and concentrates its resources against the British in 1941, they could drive Britian back to India.

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peter_suciu
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Agreed

Post by peter_suciu » 17 Dec 2002 23:17

With Turkey as Germany's ally in 1941 the Germans would have had a free hand in the Middle East, especially as they could link up by land almost with the Vichy French.

I think with Turkey in the war and Italy neutral the Germans could seize the Suez Cannel and have a free hand in the Middle East. I also think if the British were driven back towards India they would have to sue for peace, especially if the Japanese strike early against them.

That frees up the necessary men to go after the Soviets with the German navy (or what they had left) or maybe even the Italian navy operating with a free hand in the Black Sea.

SD.KPF.PZ
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Post by SD.KPF.PZ » 26 Dec 2002 22:24

The axis planned to invade turkey, not hitler but mussolinni had dreams about it
a forum was made in turkey about choosing the sides
A great number of people about %40 had choosen the axis %40 wanted to stay neutral the other wanted russia, 8O
however hitler wanted communists to collapse before dealing with the english and postponed the invasion of turkey,
(Turkish people always wanted stay as an ally to germans in every time just like in ww1)
if hitler decided to invade turkey, russia would be under german command after 2 or 3 years, english would collapse...
However it did not happen as Im turkish thank god.... :)

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