February, 1945 - What tank do you choose?

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IAR80
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Post by IAR80 » 14 Apr 2002 20:45

Room for one more? I'm bringin' out my Panther F. It'll at least outlast a Tiger in breakdowns. Oh yea', forgot to mention it's experimental optics and night vision. Try an' pop me from 1 mile with those crummy optics.
:wink:

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 14 Apr 2002 20:49

Well, all depends - I don't think that many Panther Fs saw action... - but if you can find one, be my guest... ;)

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Logan Hartke
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Re: re

Post by Logan Hartke » 14 Apr 2002 21:01

IAR80 wrote:Room for one more? I'm bringin' out my Panther F. It'll at least outlast a Tiger in breakdowns. Oh yea', forgot to mention it's experimental optics and night vision. Try an' pop me from 1 mile with those crummy optics.
:wink:
What crummy optics? The Americans and British didn't have bad optics. The Russians did. The optics of a Soviet tank depended on how good the gunner's eyesight is. Also, the Panther F didn't exist fully at any time during the war (prototype turrets at the very end and 5 hulls), let alone in February, 1945. The best you could get in February 1945 would be a Panther D with a Sperber/Solution A that you would have to pray to get at least a 50% hit ratio in combat conditons at considerable distance. That's if the thing doesn't malfunction or break while driving (and I'm just talking the infa-red equipment, not the tank).

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 14 Apr 2002 21:14

What about the Panther G? They produced over 3000 of those...

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Post by Logan Hartke » 14 Apr 2002 21:17

Yes, but they weren't fitted with IR devices until after February 1945.

Source:Panther by Thomas Anderson & Vincent Wai - Concord Publications

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 14 Apr 2002 21:18

Okay, okay ;)

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frenchval
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What about the JS series

Post by frenchval » 24 Apr 2002 15:59

They were pretty awesome tanks, yet no one seems to pick one of them. I'am not a tank buff so I ask the question to this most distinguished assembly :wink: why ?

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Galahad
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Re: why not choose?

Post by Galahad » 24 Apr 2002 18:01

IF you mean the Panther, I didn't pick it because it was prone to breakdowns, in part because the weight was increased considerably after the original design, but the suspension wasn't beefed up properly to compensate.
Arthur Clarke wrote a story called--I think--Technical Superiority--where the side with the best equipment lost the war because while it was working out the bugs in the equipment, the enemy built hordes of less effective, but fully serviceable stuff. Unless things have changed, that story is required reading for freshman at MIT.

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Post by Logan Hartke » 28 Apr 2002 18:35

Maybe the Iraqis read that book too many times. The Syrians as well. That tactic proved to be their undoing.

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Johan Elisson
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Post by Johan Elisson » 28 Apr 2002 20:00

I hope that the IS-3 was at least on a prototype stage in Feb. -45, 'cause that is my choise! :)

/Johan

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Andy H
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Post by Andy H » 28 Apr 2002 20:02

IMHO for a defensive tank v tank fight in 1945 I'd sit inside a Maus and for attacking I would chosse IS-3.

I belive a Maus was rebuilt and is on display near Moscow??

:D From the Shire

Logan Hartke
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Post by Logan Hartke » 29 Apr 2002 00:25

Johan Elisson wrote:I hope that the IS-3 was at least on a prototype stage in Feb. -45, 'cause that is my choise! :)
It was, sort of. There was a prototype, but it was very unreliable and had numerous mechanical problems. That's why I wouldn't pick it in Feb. 1945.

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Post by Xanthro » 08 May 2002 03:32

Logan Hartke wrote:Okay, I'll tell you guys, my pick is the T32. It's 90mm T15E2 had a better performance than that of the L/71. The T15E2 had amuzzle velocity of 3,750ft per second. It had 200mm frontal turret armour and 125mm frontal sloped armour and 75mm side armour. Essentially, imagine a lighter King Tiger with the manueverability of a Pershing. It looked like a Pershing on steroids. I haven't found a picture of it online, but I may post one from a scanner if no one can find a pic. Well, the suspense is over, that is my pick.

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Only problem is that the T32 wasn't built until 1946, they were ORDERED in Feb 1945, not built. Your picture is likely one where the tank is in front of a building with three windows. The windows are blocked out. If the caption reads Feb 1945 it is in error as that picture is taken in 1946.

There were two models, the T32 and the T32E1 which had a welded hull and no hull machine gun. They were order from Chrysler Detroit Arsenal.

You may find as a reference "British and American Tanks of World War II, the complete illustrated history of British, American and Commenwealth tanks, 1939-1945.

The T32 is on page 164 under 1945 Heavy Tank Design.

BTW, the T15E1 90mm doesn't use fixed ammo, so it's rate of fire is greatly reduced, plus there is a huge increase in explosion risk. But overall, I'd say the T32 looked like a good design.

Xanthro

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Post by Logan Hartke » 08 May 2002 04:42

I had to respond to the same thing twice over on the Military History Forum; here's what I said...
It fits perfectly. In the book, "U.S. Military Tracked Vehicles" by Fred W. Crismon, there are two pictures of the T32. The second one is captioned with this...
The Chrysler Corporation was the development facility for the T32, and on 16 January 1945 they posed the vehicle for formal portraits.
Therefore, I know that it fits perfectly. Come on Random, you know me better than to come forward with something like this without having researched it.
then Caldric said...
Chamberlin, American British Tanks ..., Also states 1946, with the order for the first pilot models being placed in Feburary 1945. Now they could have very well have had a prototype in 1945. But the according to the above the Pilot Models did not arrive till 1946 and no order for the Tank were issued.
and I replied...
Remember, Caldric, I have that book, too. Don't think for a second that I didn't look the T32 up in both books before I made my decision. After reading them both, cover-to-cover, I am confident that the "U.S. Military Tracked Vehicles" is more accurate. Its bibliography spans 4 pages and the book to years to research and assemble. I trust it far more. I especially trust it since it is able to give an exact date and location for the photograph.
One photograph came directly from the makers (Chrysler Corporation) and the other came from the Richard Hunnicut collection. I trust this book far more, as they got their info from the people who made the tank. Also, why would they bother building the T32 after the bigger, heavier T29 series that replaced it in the line of prototypes?
Logan Hartke

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Post by Ron Birch » 08 May 2002 04:59

After reading the posts it made my pick very easy. I'll take a Stuart tank....mmmm...hell I don't even need a turrent, just give me a white flag.......sorry guys I'm a coward 8O

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