What if Speer is successful in killing Hitler

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peter_suciu
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What if Speer is successful in killing Hitler

Post by peter_suciu » 03 Jan 2003 01:50

Albert Speer had plotted to kill Hitler in the final days of World War II. What, if any, results have become had he been successful?

My only thoughts are that the war ends a few weeks earlier. Berlin is somewhat sparred from the devastating battle and possibly Mussolini is arrested by the allies. Same with Himmler, who might have ended up standing trial.

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The Desert Fox
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Re: What if Speer is successful in killing Hitler

Post by The Desert Fox » 04 Jan 2003 03:36

peter_suciu wrote:Albert Speer had plotted to kill Hitler in the final days of World War II. What, if any, results have become had he been successful?

My only thoughts are that the war ends a few weeks earlier. Berlin is somewhat sparred from the devastating battle and possibly Mussolini is arrested by the allies. Same with Himmler, who might have ended up standing trial.
I cannot really see how Himmlers fate would have changed. He after all was captured by the allies but comitted suicide before coming to trial. The same thing would have happend if he was caputred earlier I expect.

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peter_suciu
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Post by peter_suciu » 04 Jan 2003 03:43

I think Himmler might have ended up arrested by the army and thus wouldn't have had the chance to commit suicide.

If the army captured him they might have turned him over to the allies when the surrender came.

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Post by Nagelfar » 04 Jan 2003 03:48

peter_suciu wrote:I think Himmler might have ended up arrested by the army and thus wouldn't have had the chance to commit suicide
who did you think captured him otherwise? you mean the german army? I infact, think goebbles or someone such as that would have taken over, and things may have been more disjointed toward the end, but just as extreme if not more. Himmler may not have been caught at all, but certainly would have been more prepared for suicide in that situation.

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Post by The Desert Fox » 04 Jan 2003 04:03

Nagelfar wrote:
peter_suciu wrote:I think Himmler might have ended up arrested by the army and thus wouldn't have had the chance to commit suicide
I infact, think goebbles or someone such as that would have taken over, and things may have been more disjointed toward the end, but just as extreme if not more.
I am not so sure, Goebbles if he had suceeded in seizing power a greater sense of reality would have prevailed. Goebbles was a master at weaving fantasy but had a greater grasp with reality than Hitler did in the final months of the war. He was certainly a very intellegent man and even the suicide of him and his family had a twisted logic to it. He didnt want his family to fall into the hands of the Russians.

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Post by Phaethon » 04 Jan 2003 08:51

Goebbels spent the last weks with Hitler in the bunker, and Speer's plan to kill Hitler involved dropping poison gas down the ventilation shaft, so isn't it likely that Goebbels would have been killed with Hitler, also Bormann? I don't think Speer would have worried about their deaths along with Hitler, but I don't recall any mention of consideration for other staff in the bunker, including the secretarial staff.

I think at the time Speer planned his gas attack, Eva Braun - with whom Speer was at least on friendly terms - had not arrived at the bunker, but were the rest of Goebbels down there by then? Did Speer consider sacrificing them in eliminating Hitler?

Goering, Himmler and Speer certainly would have been keen for a negotiated peace with the Western Allies, but those allies were dedicated to a total victory and I don't think it likely they would have allowed Germany to surrender in the West and yet keep fighting the Russians to the East. I don't think the post war situation would have been that much different in terms of the final occupation, but many lives would have been saved on all sides.

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Post by Kriegsmarine_Done » 07 Jan 2003 21:03

I think thet HImmler or Goering would take over.

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The Desert Fox
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Post Hitler Leader of the Reich.

Post by The Desert Fox » 08 Jan 2003 07:53

I dont think Goering still had the power base by this stage of the war to seriously chalenge for the leadership if Hitler had been killed.

The main candiates amongsts the NSDP would have been Himmler and Gobbells . If the NSDP had kept power in a post Hitler coup I think Gobbells would edge in front due to his greater intellect and his control of the media. A very strong political tool.

I think however with Hitler dead, and with the need to gain peace with the west I do not think a candiate from the NSDP would have taken power. With the reality that the west would not deal with the NSDP a more western friend candiate would have been put forward. A military leader maybe akin to someone respected like Rommel.

Just my five cents worth.

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Post by Nagelfar » 08 Jan 2003 09:18

the desert fox wrote:I think Gobbells would edge in front due to his greater intellect and his control of the media
I wouldnt say Goebbels had a 'greater intellect', but he was certainly more apt in words, a silver tongue, one might call it. this could have gotten him in power easier, but I doubt he had the capacity for organizational ability as Himmler did. he could "rally" people, but not "organize" them. Himmler may have salvaged the last fragments, whereas Goebbels I can only see leading more towards blind acts of pseudo-patriotic self destruction. on the other hand, I can see both of them trying to get what was most vital to their own interests out of harms way, and letting the shell government collaspe as something without anymore worth to their 'national socialist' & 'racial' priorities respectively.

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Post by Geli » 09 Jan 2003 06:14

Phaethon wrote:I think at the time Speer planned his gas attack, Eva Braun - with whom Speer was at least on friendly terms - had not arrived at the bunker, but were the rest of Goebbels down there by then? Did Speer consider sacrificing them in eliminating Hitler?
From Magda Goebbels: First Lady of the Third Reich by Hans Otto-Meisner:

"In the night of 18-19 April, the Russians tightened their grip on Berlin, now threatened with total encirclement. Magda telephoned to Schwanenwerder from the bunker of their city palace [Wilhelmplatz], sending word that the children were to come with Frau K [the governess] back into the capital...Frau K was one of the very few who now loyally stayed on with the family in the comfortable bunker under the city palace... On 23 April, however, the position worsened to such an extent that Goebbels, with his wife and children, moved over to a bunker under the Reich Chancellory."

On what date was Speer going to make the assassination attempt?

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Post by GFM2000 » 09 Jan 2003 06:55

I believe Speer made up his story about his desire to assassinate Hitler at Nuremberg to get off the death sentence from the Allied powers.

It worked! He "only" got 20 years, and his fellow co-worker Fritz Saulker was hung like the rest.
:D

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Post by Nagelfar » 09 Jan 2003 07:34

GFM2000 wrote:I believe Speer made up his story about his desire to assassinate Hitler at Nuremberg to get off the death sentence from the Allied powers.
I agree to a point. he brought it up as if he had the will to do such a thing at any point, which I believe he didnt. on the otherhand, I'm sure it went through his head, but no more than plausibility as in seeing where he was in history and what impact it would have. I am sure Goebbels, Goering, Himmler, Bormann, and all else had the same fleeting thought, but only as a thought and not a true inclination. the only difference between them and Speer, is that Speer may have concluded that it could actually have done good, whereas such a thought going through, say, Himmler's head was only concluded as a bad idea; if otherwise one of them may have acted on it.

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Post by Phaethon » 09 Jan 2003 11:14

Geli wrote:On what date was Speer going to make the assassination attempt?
He doesn't give exact dates in "Inside the Third Reich" but claims to have made the decision to kill Hitler in early February, 1945. By late February he claims to have been making enquiries about obtaining poison gas, however the ventilation shaft he intended to use was guarded and modified with a high chimney in early March.

He does say:
But I continued to pursue my plan, for this seemed the only way to eliminate not only Hitler, but Bormann, Goebbels and Ley at the same time, during one of their nocturnal chats.
[Speer, Inside the Third Reich, Ch. 28]

If he is telling the truth about this plan then he did indeed intend to take out all the 'no surrender' fanatics closest to Hitler. I suppose the other staff includiong secretaries would have been expended also. Would he have considered it if Magda and the children had arrived earlier? Who knows? The whole plan, if it ever existed, never got beyond a vague idea and some tentative enquiries about material.

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