Me 262 scenario

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today. Hosted by Terry Duncan.
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Napoli
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Post by Napoli » 16 Jan 2003 02:45

The article was in the "Advertiser" news paper Desert Fox, aprox 3 years ago maybe, I'd love to tell you exactly when so as to keep any search you might have quicker :cry: (can you search for it maybe as I wouldnt mind seeing it myself again too?).
But well worth the read DF, may have had a photo of him by memory by the remains of a Me 262 in Canbera (?). He absolutley shook his neigbor to the ground (he had known him to be a pilot but not what kind) when after having a chat with him over the fence, finally decided to ask what it was he flew? After he told him his neighbor must have run down to the papers for a story they just couldnt refuse!!! :lol: :lol:

PS: I was actually going to comment on weather on my previous post but thought it might be a bit of an upsetting conversation!! :lol: :lol: I'll be happily off Glenelg for snapper though,
Catcha and enjoy DF :D

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The Desert Fox
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Post by The Desert Fox » 16 Jan 2003 09:25

Yes I believe the National military museum in Canberra has one of five or so complete Me262 still in existence in the world. Although I dont think the plane has been displayed in its complete state for some time. I read somewhere it was undergoing restoration work.

Anyone from Australia who knows more about this ME 262 in Canberra?

mmmmmm not sure where to start but certainly would be keen to find that article. Any other Adelaide resident familiar with the story about the pilot mentioned in this thread, living in adelaide???

regards
The Desert Fox

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Napoli
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Post by Napoli » 17 Jan 2003 01:50

I believe my brother has a photo in his posession of that very plane, looks to be a bit crashed up but this was taken 3 years ago on a visit there, I've yet to go there but one day......... :D
Dont have a scanner so cant put it up here, Sorry 'bout that.

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davethelight
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Post by davethelight » 17 Jan 2003 07:13

Napoli

It would be cool to see that photo you mentioned of those Italian jets flying in formation.

Do you know anything of the evaluation results from the Britts and Americans?

Would this aircraft have compared with the Me 262, or even surpassed it?

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Napoli
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Post by Napoli » 17 Jan 2003 09:17

Hi Dave, heres the stats for this particular jetfighter as you requested and some other infomation concerning its history. :D



Engine: 1x Junkers Jumo 004 turbojet
Wing Span: 9.5 m
Length: 9 m
Height: 2.93 m
Weight: Empty 2,500 kg / Loaded 3,540 kg
Maximum Speed: 1,050 km/h
Ceiling: 15,000 m
Range: 1,500 km
Crew: 1
Armament: 4x 20mm cannons
History:
Detail design of the Re 2007 single-seat jet fighter began in October 1943. With component manufacturing began shortly afterwards. All design work had to be based on the known dimension of the Junkers Jumo 004 turbojet engine, it's intended power plant, but could progress no further by January 1944 owing to to lack of detailed information relating to the engine and it's installation.

Hauptmann Bohm, the Luftwaffe's senior engineer at the Reggiane plant, could obtain no definitive decision concerning the supply of the two Junkers Jumo 004B's which had been promised by the Germans. On the 7th January 1944, Roberto Longhi wrote to Count Caproni, requesting that he intercede with the German authorities as design work had stalled. In the meantime, much of the rear fuselage, wing spars, ribs, undercarriage and the cockpit were built but because of the inability to obtain adequately detailed information relating to the engine work once again stalled.

In October 1944 the completed components were moved to the Caproni plant at Taliedo, where they would remain until the end of the war, when they were then shipped to the U.S.A.
It is interesting to note that the two Jumo 004B engines were sent to Italy, but were said to have been sold for scrap in Milan immediately after the collapse of the German forces in Italy.

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Napoli
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Post by Napoli » 17 Jan 2003 09:37

Cant find that photo or site anymore, but there seems to be some doubt about a few things on this project also as to how far it proceeded. The one site I talked off had a photo of a single plane flying (could have been doctored up) and did mention of both America and Britain carrying out tests, while other sites seem to agree that it never flew.
But had it been up and ready with the stats mentioned, this would have been one great fighterplane to say the least.
Sorry about that Dave but maybe some of the Italian nationals in the Axis section can give a better picture of this story if you like as alot of better info would be in the Italian language or their knowledge is alot better than mine on these subjects? :cry:

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davethelight
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Post by davethelight » 18 Jan 2003 03:27

Wow, looking at those statistics it looks as though this aircraft would have been faster than the Me 262 and just as heavily armed, as well as simpler to produce, having only one engine.
I guess the Italians had some serious pre war talent with designing fast aircrat with their float planes of the 1920s and 1930s, so its not surprising they were able to design an aircraft like this.
Just imagine if the beaurocracy that hampered the development of this plane had not been as bad and they had started making an appearance in late 1944. It could have made for some interesting sky shows.

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Napoli
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Post by Napoli » 18 Jan 2003 07:17

Firstly, heres a site connected to the Australian held Me 262 with a few photo's both B@W and colour, qiute interesting. :)
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/me262.html


If you go to the "Hall of fame" section, you will find plenty of surviving Me 262's as in original restored, in colour photo's.
Last edited by Napoli on 19 Jan 2003 02:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Napoli
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Post by Napoli » 18 Jan 2003 07:23

Me 262A-1a Schwalbe
Engines Two Jumo 004B jet engines 900 kg of thrust (each)
Armament Four nose-mounted Mk108 30mm cannons.
Performance Max speed: 870 km/h (540 mph) Ceiling: 11500 m (37730 ft)

OK, so a breakdown would be with figures supplied:

Speed of Caproni= 1050km/h versus 870km/h.

Ceiling hieght obtainable= Caproni 15,000m versus 11500m for me262.

Plane was designed with help of German engineers aparently. A confirmation of all these stats would be much apreciated and of the valadility of how far the Caproni 2007 project went also. But based on these figures, this would have been a truely great fighter if ever it had the chance of mass production.
Ciao guys :D

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The Desert Fox
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Post by The Desert Fox » 19 Jan 2003 13:42

Napoli wrote:Firstly, heres a site connected to the Australian held Me 262 with a few photo's both B@W and colour, qiute interesting. :)
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/me262.html


If you go to the "Hall of fame" section, you will find plenty of surviving Me 262's as in original restored, in colour photo's.
Thanks for the websight Napoli. If I ever get to Canberra I will defnitely be going to see it. These pictures certainly wet the appetite.

regards
The Desert Fox

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The Desert Fox
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Post by The Desert Fox » 19 Jan 2003 13:54

Napoli wrote:Firstly, heres a site connected to the Australian held Me 262 with a few photo's both B@W and colour, qiute interesting. :)
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/me262.html


If you go to the "Hall of fame" section, you will find plenty of surviving Me 262's as in original restored, in colour photo's.
Its a pity the aircraft hasnt been reasembled. Just reading the history of the aircraft, it certainly has had a tragic tale of neglect over the past 50 years.

Make one wonder whether a petition would be worth while to kick those public servants in Canberra into action.

regards
The Desert Fox

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Erich
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262

Post by Erich » 26 Jan 2003 05:54

just for the record the Arado 234 C was the fastest turbojet a/c in the Luftwaffe arsenal.

simple fact even in 1942 or 43 if the 262 had been available there was still the matter of working out the bugs in the a/c. Like faulty engines and fuel lines. Protective measures for the a/c on taking off and landing. The jet flew too wide an arc or circle while dog fighting with more potent P-51 fighters. As a fighter the 262 was a pig, it could only bounce once and take off, as a fighter against bombers this was another story but the speed range from intercept to bomber closed the range dramatically and finding the fault with the close range Mk 108 3cm weapon found it lacking even with the M-Geschoss rounds. One fo the 262 biggst problems was it's lack of range. The primitive engines just ate the fuel right up and even with 262 A-1a night fighters in early 45, more range was needed, thus the B-1a/U-1 was created but had to it's dsimay radar aerails and an extra crew member plus two fuel(drop) tanks on the underfuselage nose cutting off some 150 mph from it's speed.

E

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kobold
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Post by kobold » 26 Jan 2003 10:14

just happen to have some scans of the arado's on my hd :)

I uploaded them to my webspace:

http://www.walkerboyz.pwp.blueyonder.co ... Arado.html


232,234a,234b,234c


some me 262 pics too:
http://www.walkerboyz.pwp.blueyonder.co ... me262.html


dave

source of original pics unknown.

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