What could Germany offer Italy in July 1940?

[Mostlyharmless]

According to the British Official History, the Italians did ask for German aid in the form of German weapons and materials. The Germans were not interested in supplying the weapons but offered German troops, which Mussolini wasn't interested in.

So how well might the Italians have done if the Germans supplied them with everything that they had available? Might such generosity have caused the Italians to allow some Germans to help with deploying the new weapons?

[nebelwerferXXX]

Italy's urgent need of
6-million tons of coal,
2-million tons of steel,
1-million tons of timber, as well as
17,000 military vehicles and
150 anti-aircraft batteries. As Ciano had said, it was 'enough to kill a bull'; and it was obviously impossible for the Germans to supply even half the amounts demanded.

[LWD]

Italy's urgent need of
6-million tons of coal,
2-million tons of steel,
1-million tons of timber, as well as
17,000 military vehicles and
150 anti-aircraft batteries. As Ciano had said, it was 'enough to kill a bull'; and it was obviously impossible for the Germans to supply even half the amounts demanded.

I think the point of the question was not just what could Germany offer Italy but what could they reliably deliver. As usual a unsourced and commented on wish list adds little (and that's being generous) to the discussion.

[nebelwerferXXX]

Italy's urgent need of
6-million tons of coal,
2-million tons of steel,
1-million tons of timber, as well as
17,000 military vehicles and
150 anti-aircraft batteries. As Ciano had said, it was 'enough to kill a bull'; and it was obviously impossible for the Germans to supply even half the amounts demanded.

source:
Mussolini...copyright @ Christopher Hibbert 1973

[nebelwerferXXX]

Hello!

17,000 military vehicles?
150 AA batteries (or about 600 AA guns?)

What's the schematic breakdown of the military vehicles and AA guns? Thanks!

[Slic59]

To cut off the Mediteranean neutralise Malta and the direct route to Egypt would have been easy. Opposite Gibralter is Morroco controlled then by the Vichy French who were controlled bt the Germans and were thirsty for revenge after the Royal Navy had sunk the French fleet.At it's narrowest point the straits are only 7.5 miles wide. THe German naviies 380mm kamone ; as mounted on the Bismarck and the Tirpitz had a range of about 20Put a few batteries in structures similar to those used for u boats at L'Orient and use of Gib by the RN would have been untenable. Convoys to Malta and Egypt impossible they would have to go via Cape of Good Hope and the Suexz running the gauntlet of the U boat wolf pack that you have stationed there - non?

[Slic59]

Just base a few batteries of 380mm kanone ( range 20 miles) opposite Gib (8 miles) in Vichy controlled Morroco in bomb proof bunkers sinilar to the U- boat pens at L;Orient- end of chat-non?Meanwhile get the Italians to allow a U - boat & a Luftwffe base in Eritrea

[Kingfish]

Just base a few batteries of 380mm kanone ( range 20 miles) opposite Gib (8 miles) in Vichy controlled Morroco in bomb proof bunkers sinilar to the U- boat pens at L;Orient- end of chat-non?Meanwhile get the Italians to allow a U - boat & a Luftwffe base in Eritrea

Already discussed:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=226739

Bottom line: it's easy to envision the Axis deploying heavy weapons to hit GB...that is until you factor in the difficulties of transporting such weapons to North Africa, and the logistics required, and the inevitable British response, and probable French refusal, etc etc etc...

[ThreadCutter]

What if the Germans made a deal with the Italians where Italian navy frogmen would be allowed to seize the French fleet, before it was damaged/sunk by the British? It would be a joint effort, but Italian frogmen could lead the way, since 1, they were excellent, and 2, it would reinforce the Italian national pride. Then the Germans offer up the entire fleet, all the seized vessels, to the Italians in exchange for cooperation in NA. With the addition of the french vessels, luftwaffe support and the ~4 patched together German panzer divisions in addition to other axis forces, I feel the British would be put severely on the backfoot. It would irritate Vichy, but having all the axis onboard with a med plan in early 1940 is worth loosing Vichy holdings/troops in Africa, which were lost eventually anyway. The Germans could pitch the entire invasion of Africa and the Levant as another crusade-- something that in the past had united Germans, Italians, and Spaniards on gallivants into the middle east. Germany doesn't ask for anything but mineral rights in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Iraq, then divy up the rest of the land as would best accommodate Spain and Italy.

[Ironmachine]

Opposite Gibralter is Morroco controlled then by the Vichy French who were controlled bt the Germans and were thirsty for revenge after the Royal Navy had sunk the French fleet.At it's narrowest point the straits are only 7.5 miles wide. THe German naviies 380mm kamone ; as mounted on the Bismarck and the Tirpitz had a range of about 20Put a few batteries in structures similar to those used for u boats at L'Orient and use of Gib by the RN would have been untenable
[...]
Just base a few batteries of 380mm kanone ( range 20 miles) opposite Gib (8 miles) in Vichy controlled Morroco in bomb proof bunkers sinilar to the U- boat pens at L;Orient- end of chat-non?

Actually, opposite Gibraltar is Spanish Morocco, controlled then by (surprise!) Spain. The Germans are not going to reach Gibraltar with artillery if they place it in French Morocco (even if that was feasible, that is a completely different question, as noted by Kingfish).

To cut off the Mediteranean neutralise Malta and the direct route to Egypt would have been easy.[...] Convoys to Malta and Egypt impossible they would have to go via Cape of Good Hope and the Suexz

And in fact Egypt was supplied via the Cape of Good Hope in OTL, so there is no difference in that regard.

[Kingfish]

What if the Germans made a deal with the Italians where Italian navy frogmen would be allowed to seize the French fleet, before it was damaged/sunk by the British? It would be a joint effort, but Italian frogmen could lead the way, since 1, they were excellent, and 2, it would reinforce the Italian national pride. Then the Germans offer up the entire fleet, all the seized vessels, to the Italians in exchange for cooperation in NA. With the addition of the french vessels, luftwaffe support and the ~4 patched together German panzer divisions in addition to other axis forces, I feel the British would be put severely on the backfoot.

How exactly would this new fleet operate?
It's not as though Italy had several thousand trained sailors just laying around waiting for an entire fleet to become available.

[NeoVisionist]

What would Mussolini have thought of Atlantropa, the utopian future megascheme to lower the Med and increase Italy's landmass? Hitler was supposedly uninterested; lebensraum to the east was his chosen vice. The plans were the life's work of Herman Sörgel.