http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_sub ... eutschland
http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/ ... chant+subs
Breaking off from Tim Smith's threat about no new German capital ship construction during WW1, I have posted some comments from that threat on this subject below. The premise of this thread is that the Kaiserliche Marine realizes that a blockade is a distinct possibility in WW1 and make some preparations into different solution, one of which being merchant submarines. None are started before the war starts, but construction of the Deutschland starts in October 1914 and is completed in early 1915. It makes it famous journey in June, to much acclaim in the US, and prompts an offer for an American company to make more merchant subs for the Germans. On the Deutschland's next trip it brings back financing for the construction, which starts in late 1915. 10 models are ordered based on the Deutschland. In Germany another 7 are under construction and the Deutschland makes several more trips during the year, bringing back needed items not banned as war materials by the US, including nitrates and metals in low supply. By November 5 more subs are ready for action and start making the trip, one is lost, but the others are able to make runs on their own. Some banks start to make loans to the Germans for goods and further construction of these subs. The UK protests vigorously, but the US media brings up issues like the blockade being unlawful, to older matters like the UK building warships for the Confederacy in the Civil War. The US government doesn't involve itself other than to deny its company's actions are legal, and quietly remind the UK of the illegality of their blockade, but the issue is dropped by both sides.
How does this impact the war in your minds? I will voice my opinions on the matter later after I get some responses, if I get any.
stg 44 wrote: @Dave Bender: The subs can, depending on the numbers involved, import large amounts of crucial nitrates, which would help sagging production at home. Crucial metals, like copper, can also be brought in to help alleviate the tremendous strain. One trip took about 2 months there and back, plus rest, loading, and refit. That means, for the sake of argument, that 1 sub can bring in (700*5=) 3500 tons per year. Add 10 subs= 35,000. 50 subs=175,000 tons. Will this be enough to break the blockade, no. But it will make things easier at home if the right items are brought in, and it will create a feeling that a neutral US is more important that attempt to starve out the British with. A US company that made subs for the US during the war offered to make merchant subs for the Germans. If they pay for it, the Germans would not have to worry about their own production to make these subs. Also there were plenty of concerned German-Americans to train in the US to run these subs so men would not need to be transported. It is a major unexplored option that could have had interesting and crucial political and military effects on the course of the war, especially if the Germans can secure some of those war loans the US was giving out....
BDV wrote:As to the undersurfacers not having a real impact. An airplane engine at the time was 2-300 kilos. Assuming only 200 tons in the pressure hull, still gives 1,000 airplane engines, in one load. Or the equivalent in tractor engines. Or Maxim machineguns. There is a manpower shortage in Germany (with all the men on front), and a manpower excess in US (with world commerce at a standstill). Yanks would have continue to have great interest in dyes and Salvarsan (as would America south of RioGrande). Labor intensive stuff can be traded for mutual profit. If the flotilla can ensure 50 trips per year, that's 10,000 tons. 10,000,000 kilos, and both US and Germany have stuff that interests the other and which can turn 10 US$/kg profit.
That would also establish a conduit in which gold and silver bullion is flowing from the Prussian and KuK coffers into yankee pockets. Rather than Entente paper promises. Cutting this flow will be a hard, hard sell for the kernel House's War Party. So if to this economic bonanza, HSF adds slow but unrelenting attrition of RN, British pressure on US becomes that much less effective.
The cost to Britain of US joining in skyrockets (Singapore +/- Hong Kong?). If Germany, in exchange for US assurances on neutrality, officially recognizes US's first right over any assets to retrieve its (US) war loans, is Britain ready to garnish the Singapore gift to US with their Caribeean posesions and Falklands?
Slip a 4-5 merchants in the Mediteraneean, have a trade line open with Spain, give RN some more wild goose chasing.
But if the 2nd Reich leadership wouldn't have been infatuated with shiny military solutions, would they have been in the mess, to begin with?
Dave Bender wrote:Merchant submarines can transport only a tiny amount of cargo per trip. About 700 tons for the historical Deutschland. Cruising speed is pretty slow also. That makes for very expensive shipping costs per ton of cargo. They cannot carry enough to make a dent in German industrial and food imports. However there might be another use for cargo submarines. They can be used for clandestine missions to places like Ost Afrika.
According to the U.S. Army...
800 rounds of 7.62mm NATO ammunition weighs 41 kg. That includes 4 steel ammo cans packed in a wooden crate. I'm going to assume that 7.92mm Mauser ammo and packaging weighs approximately the same.
24 crates of ammunition weighs 1 metric ton (1,000 kg.) 19,200 rounds of ammunition.
So...
A Deutschland class cargo submarine can carry about 13 million rounds of small arms ammunition. Ammo cans are compact and rugged which makes them ideal cargo to carry on a submarine. (I served on a USN sub for 2 years and have helped load plenty of cargo.)
Approximately 10,000 Schultztruppen in Ost Afrika after the 1915 expansion. So a Deutschland class submarine can provide about 1,300 rounds of small arms ammunition per trip for each soldier. Let's call it 1,000 rounds to allow a bit of room for mail and medical supplies.
One Deutschland class submarine trip per month would keep Ost Afrika supplied indefinately. With Gen. Lettow-Vorbeck in command they would keep fighting until they die of old age during the 1960s.