The Alexandrian Backdoor - to the Balkans

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BDV
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The Alexandrian Backdoor - to the Balkans

Post by BDV » 24 Oct 2012 16:01

In early 1941, thanks to Italo-German miscommunication and Italian blundering and ineffective bluffing, the Axis had two major distractions on hand - Lybia and the Balkans.

However, it dawned on me that should the Italo-Germans mount a sustained attack and conquer lower Egypt, the Balkans would be isolated, and could be either taken at a leisurely pace, or simply left alone (except for some small blocking force) to serve (like in WWI) as an ersatz POW camp.

Is there any avenue for a successful german attack in Cyrenaica and lower Egypt? I'm thinking about a March fallschirm assault on Malta, followed by feeding additional Panzerdivision and Motorized division into the attack in April.
Last edited by BDV on 25 Oct 2012 14:53, edited 1 time in total.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Kingfish
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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor

Post by Kingfish » 24 Oct 2012 16:49

If the Germans are going to reinforce the DAK above and beyond what they historically got, then why not go straight at Alexandria/Suez via the coastal route, rather than complicate the affair by driving deep into the desert?

nota
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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor

Post by nota » 24 Oct 2012 18:48

coast area is lower egypt

upper egypt was UP THE NILE

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor

Post by Andy H » 25 Oct 2012 00:48

BDV wrote:In early 1941, thanks to Italo-German miscommunication and Italian blundering and ineffective bluffing, the Axis had two major distractions on hand - Lybia and the Balkans.

However, it dawned on me that should the Italo-Germans mount a sustained attack and conquer lower Egypt, the Balkans would be isolated, and could be either taken at a leisurely pace, or simply left alone (except for some small blocking force) to serve (like in WWI) as an ersatz POW camp.

Is there any avenue for a successful german attack in Cyrenaica and lower Egypt? I'm thinking about a March fallschirm assault on Malta, followed by feeding additional Panzerdivision and Motorized division into the attack in April.
Hi

Just to clarify, are you thus proposing a postponement of the attack on Russia with this scenario?

Regards

Andy H

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor

Post by Gooner1 » 25 Oct 2012 09:59

BDV wrote:In early 1941, thanks to Italo-German miscommunication and Italian blundering and ineffective bluffing, the Axis had two major distractions on hand - Lybia and the Balkans.

However, it dawned on me that should the Italo-Germans mount a sustained attack and conquer lower Egypt, the Balkans would be isolated, and could be either taken at a leisurely pace, or simply left alone (except for some small blocking force) to serve (like in WWI) as an ersatz POW camp.

Is there any avenue for a successful german attack in Cyrenaica and lower Egypt? I'm thinking about a March fallschirm assault on Malta, followed by feeding additional Panzerdivision and Motorized division into the attack in April.
Well ...

1. Malta is much better protected than Crete and Crete was a near run thing ...
2. In the OTL it took the better part of 5 (five) months to transport just the two Panzer divisions to Africa.
3. Traversing Egypt south of the Qattara depression was the province of the Bedouin and intrepid explorers - not armies.
4. Letting the British get their feet under the table in Greece would be a very bad idea.

Apart from that though ...

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor

Post by Baltasar » 25 Oct 2012 10:44

Malta is much closer to Italian home ports, thus the big guns could be used here. It is also near enough to provide constant air cover for said surface force. Italian landing forces, aided by German paras, should've been able to successfully attack Malta in those days. I think we tried to game that particular scenario on this very board a while ago...

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor

Post by Gooner1 » 25 Oct 2012 11:42

There is no 'should' about it.

"Q What effect have the operations in Crete had upon the possibility of defending Malta, Cyprus, &c.?"

A The situation in Malta is, of course, very different to that of either Crete or Cyprus. Malta is a fortress which has been in our possession for over 100 years and has powerful defences which are constantly being augmented. A great deal of underground accommodation is available, so that, although there have been almost incessant air raids for a year, the casualties have been trifling. There is a completely equipped and efficient garrison; the air defences consist of fighter aircraft and anti-aircraft guns, the strength of which at the end of June was—
Serviceable Hurricanes 50
Heavy Anti-aircraft guns 112
Light Anti-aircraft guns 72

It is hoped, before the end of this month, to increase the number of anti-aircraft guns to—
Heavy Anti-aircraft guns 112
Light Anti-aircraft guns 120

A good system of R.D.F. has been installed."

http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarl ... 3-1-2.html

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor

Post by BDV » 25 Oct 2012 14:04

Andy H wrote: Just to clarify, are you thus proposing a postponement of the attack on Russia with this scenario?

Regards

Andy H

Not more than the historical delay.

P.S. As there seems to be some confusion - Lower Egypt is the Nile Delta area.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor

Post by Kingfish » 25 Oct 2012 14:41

BDV wrote:
Andy H wrote: P.S. As there seems to be some confusion - Lower Egypt is the Nile Delta area.
The confusion is probably mine. When you said Alexandrian "backdoor" I assumed you meant driving to the upper Nile then hooking north to capture the delta from the flank.

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor - to the Balkans

Post by BDV » 25 Oct 2012 14:54

I meant "- to the Balkans". Sorry for the confusion.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor - to the Balkans

Post by Kingfish » 25 Oct 2012 14:57

With that cleared up, are you suggesting the forces historically committed to the Balkans/Greece would instead be sent to NA, and then used to capture the Delta region?

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor - to the Balkans

Post by BDV » 25 Oct 2012 15:10

The option opens the room for a lot of trickery - german troops can be massed in Bulgaria and/or Albania making tons of aggressive noises, but this would be mostly the AGS reserve forces/ersatz-Heer.

The assault on Malta would be in late March/early April and should be a mixed airborne-amphibious assault, after which (if successful), the surviving assets (landing ships - marinefahprahm, and Ju52s) can move to supporting the coastal advance of Axis troops.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Re: The Alexandrian Backdoor - to the Balkans

Post by Kingfish » 25 Oct 2012 15:28

I guess my question is where would the additional troops come from?

More importantly, where would the logistics come from? There are quite a few threads here on the problems of supplying a stronger Axis army in NA.

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Re: Logistics

Post by BDV » 25 Oct 2012 15:41

It needs to come from what was historically spent in the Balkans. The importance of taking Malta is that it eases/simplifies providing for the North African forces. The trick is that uber-swift action is needed if British are to be caught 'pants down' in North Africa.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Re: Logistics

Post by Kingfish » 25 Oct 2012 15:53

BDV wrote:The importance of taking Malta is that it eases/simplifies providing for the North African forces.
Up to a point. Bear in mind your WI assumes the Axis make no attempt at conquering Greece, at least until after the Delta falls. This would leave Crete free to be turned into Malta pt II. While this may not affect the Taranto-Tripoli LOC all that much, it certainly would for any Axis shipping heading to Benghazi or Tobruk, and a strengthened DAK could not function on just truck bound supplies brought up the coast road.
Last edited by Kingfish on 25 Oct 2012 16:21, edited 1 time in total.

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