A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

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A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by Futurist » 15 Aug 2016 00:18

While the idea of a Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler might seem *extremely* radical considering what Hitler actually did to the Jews in real life, I *don't* think that this idea is completely implausible with a sufficient early "point of departure" (PoD) from real life. Indeed, here is what I am thinking of here:

Sometime in either the early 1920s or the mid-1920s (but before Mein Kampf is published; else, it would probably already be too late for Hitler to convincingly do this), Adolf Hitler somehow (say, perhaps as a result of a head injury) experiences a small epiphany. As a result of this epiphany, Hitler realizes that *not all* Jews are bad and that rather many/most Jews are actually both loyal and patriotic towards Germany. (Indeed, such a view certainly *wasn't* radical during this time; after all, Winston Churchill wrote an article with a similar theme in 1920: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Zionism_ ... Bolshevism ) In addition to this, though, Adolf Hitler goes further than that in this TL; to elaborate on this, in this TL, Hitler (as a supporter and proponent of forcibly Germanizing neighboring ethnic groups and peoples) comes to admire most European Jews for their use of the Yiddish language (which, as far as I know, is mutually intelligible to the German language in its spoken form). Indeed, in this TL, Hitler believes that European Jews' use of the Yiddish language makes them more "Germanized" in comparison to other European ethnic groups such as Poles and Russians and thus believes that (Yiddish-speaking) European Jews are more deserving of respect and admiration than Poles, Russians, et cetera.

To clarify--in this TL, Adolf Hitler is still *rabidly* anti-socialist and anti-Marxist and an *extreme* German nationalist who supports using military force to acquire additional Lebensraum for Germany as well as who supports forcibly Germanizing neighboring ethnic groups and peoples (such as Poles and Russians whom he deems to be "worthy" of being Germanized). Indeed, the only thing that would be different about Adolf Hitler in this TL is that rather than viewing *all* Jews as being bad, Hitler would (like Winston Churchill in 1920) draw a distinction between (in Winston Churchill's own words) "good Jews" (as in, Jews who *aren't* actively involved in either socialist or Communist movements) and "bad Jews" (as in, Jews who *are* actively involved in either socialist or Communist movements). Plus, in this TL, Hitler would be proud of the fact that most European Jews speak Yiddish and use it as an example of a successful (partial) Germanization of a different ethnic group (in this case, the Jews) which he wants to emulate and copy in regards to other ethnic groups (such as Poles and Russians) whom he wants to put under Germany's control. (In turn, this would mean that Hitler would actually treat "good Jews" very favorably in this TL--as opposed to putting them in ghettos and concentration camps and committing genocide against them like he did in our TL.)

Now, one might wonder as to whether such a philo-Semitic position on Adolf Hitler's part would result in his leadership of the Nazi Party being successfully challenged. Frankly, I think that such a leadership challenge to Hitler is unlikely to have succeeded. After all, in this TL, Hitler is still both an *extreme* German nationalist and an *extreme* anti-Marxist and anti-socialist; rather, the only thing that is different about Hitler in this scenario is that he actually differentiates between "good Jews" and "bad Jews" rather than viewing *all* Jews as bad (like he unfortunately (and inaccurately) did in our TL). Plus, even in the 1920s, a large part--indeed, perhaps most--of the Nazi Party's success was probably attributed to Hitler; thus, having a philo-Semitic Hitler lead the Nazi Party in this TL is probably something that most members of the Nazi Party would tolerate--however reluctantly.

Meanwhile, in regards to the question of whether or not a philo-Semitic Hitler would have still been able to gain power in Germany in the early 1930s, I see *absolutely no* reason as to why exactly he would have been unable to do this. After all, as far as I know, most of the people who voted for Hitler (and for the Nazi Party) in the early 1930s didn't vote for him due to his anti-Semitism, but rather due to their belief that he can improve and fix the German economy. Indeed, I see *absolutely no* reason that this belief would be *any* different in this scenario.

Also, in regards to the consequences of a philo-Semitic Adolf Hitler being in power in Germany starting from 1933, here is what I think the consequences of this would have been:

-There would obviously be *no* anti-Semitic discrimination or mass killings of Jews in Germany and in German-controlled areas. (Of course, Jews who *are* active in socialist or Communist movements will be treated just like ethnic Germans and other ethnic groups who *are* active in socialist or Communist movements--as in, *extremely* badly; however, there will certainly be *no* specific anti-Jewish discrimination and anti-Jewish mass murder in this scenario.)
-As a result of its lack of anti-Semitism, Nazi Germany is probably going to have a better image in the West in the 1930s in this scenario (at least until the start of World War II).
-Germany's Jewish population *doesn't* massively emigrate during Nazi rule and survives World War II intact (since the Nazis certainly *aren't* going to be interested in killing German and European Jews en masse in this TL).
-During its conquests in Eastern Europe (during World War II), Nazi Germany is going to actively seek cooperation and collaboration with Eastern Europe's Yiddish-speaking Jewish population. Due to the fond Jewish memories of German occupation of large parts of Eastern Europe during World War I (including by my Jewish great-great-grandparents), there would probably be many Jews (both in Germany and in other parts of Europe) who would be willing to cooperate and to collaborate with Nazi Germany in this TL.
-The lack of Nazi German anti-Semitism might cause less Jewish scientists to immigrate to the U.S., which in turn *might* result in a somewhat slower nuclear weapons program in the U.S. and thus *maybe* in an outright U.S. invasion of Japan in either late 1945 or sometime in 1946 due to the fact that Japan probably *won't* unconditionally surrender to the Allies as early as it did in our TL (when two nuclear weapons were used by the U.S. against Japan).
-The Jewish cooperation and collaboration with Nazi Germany in this TL is probably going to cause Joseph Stalin to deport Soviet Jews en masse to the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, Siberia, and/or Central Asia in this scenario after the end of World War II just like he did with the Crimean Tatars (and possibly with the Chechens as well) in our TL.
-Due to their greater isolation from the major Soviet population centers (as a result of their post-World War II deportations to the middle of nowhere), Soviet Jews are probably going to be unable to try launching escape attempts from the Soviet Union like they tried doing in our TL. Thus, countries such as the U.S. would probably be less willing to accept Soviet Jewish refugees during the Cold War than they were in our TL.
-Just like with some Volksdeutsche (such as some of the Black Sea Germans), I *strongly* suspect that, during its retreat from Eastern Europe, Nazi Germany will help evacuate many Yiddish-speaking (and thus "partially Germanized") Jews from Eastern Europe to Germany proper in order to help them escape the wrath of the Red Army. In turn, this might very well result in a *much* larger Jewish community after the end of World War II in comparison to 1933.
-The U.N. certainly *isn't* going to approve the creation of Israel in this TL (due to the lack of Nazi genocide against the Jews). In turn, this means that while Zionist Jews in Palestine might very well stage an insurgency against both the British and the Palestinians, Israel is unlikely to survive for very long even if it wins its 1948-1949 war with the Arabs. After all, in this TL, Western countries are probably going to view Israel as a rogue, illegitimate state while the Soviet Union would probably be unlikely to help Israel out due to Soviet memories of Jewish cooperation and collaboration with Nazi Germany during World War II. In turn, this means that Israel probably *isn't* going to have *any* Great Power allies in this TL; thus, even if the Arabs will fail to destroy Israel in 1948-1949 in this TL, the Arabs will probably succeed in eventually destroying Israel in this TL (especially considering that the lack of Great Power support means that Israel's nuclear weapons program is going to advance at a slower rate/pace in this TL in comparison to our TL).
-After the likely destruction of Israel (whenever it will occur) in this TL, Israel's Jewish population will probably immigrate to either Europe or the U.S.; indeed, I *strongly* suspect that *a lot* of Israeli Jews will immigrate to Germany in this TL due to the fact that post-World War II Germany will probably be the center of Western European Jewish life in this TL.
-*If* the Soviet Union eventually collapses in this TL, then the large (and probably *very* assimilated) Jewish community in Germany in this TL (whose numbers will probably be *significantly* increased as a result of the evacuation of *a lot* of Jews from Eastern Europe to Germany during World War II) will lobby for Germany to accept *extremely large* numbers of Jewish immigrants from the former Soviet Union (who, in this TL, have spent decades being stuck in the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, Siberia, and/or Central Asia). Indeed, given the influence of the Jewish community in Germany in this TL, I suspect that Germany's Jewish community will be successful in lobbying the German government to accept *extremely large* numbers of Jewish immigrants from the former Soviet Union in this TL.
-As a result of its *extremely* large, booming, vibrant, and thriving Jewish community in the late 20th and early 21st centuries in this TL, Germany will probably also be a magnet for large-scale Jewish immigration from other European countries (such as France, where there unfortunately appears to be *a lot* of Muslim anti-Semitism) in this TL--especially considering that Israel would have probably already been destroyed (and thus have ceased to exist as a state) by this point in time (as in, by the end of the 20th century) in this TL.

Anyway, any thoughts on everything that I wrote here?

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by wm » 25 Aug 2016 00:07

Futurist wrote:Meanwhile, in regards to the question of whether or not a philo-Semitic Hitler would have still been able to gain power in Germany in the early 1930s, I see *absolutely no* reason as to why exactly he would have been unable to do this. After all, as far as I know, most of the people who voted for Hitler (and for the Nazi Party) in the early 1930s didn't vote for him due to his anti-Semitism, but rather due to their belief that he can improve and fix the German economy.
Not quite:
the "Sklarek Scandal" bolstered prejudice in many ways: The Sklareks were Jews, Leo and Willy Sklarek had been members of the Social-Democratic Party (SPD) since 1928, Max Sklarek was a member of the Deutsche Demokratische Panel, (German Democratic Party/DDP), the K.V.G. had donated clothing to the Rote Hilfe ['Red Aid', a political aid agency affiliated with the Communist Party], the brothers had donated funds to the DNVP and were also friends with the German-nationalist publisher and professional anti-Semite Wilhelm Bruhn (indisputably the most unexpected surprise that came to light)."

The Sklareks had bribed Nationalist as well as Communist city Councillors, donated money to the SPD and DDP, had expensive clothes manufactured and sent to influential friends for ridiculously low prices or "forgotten" about the bill completely.
Even the wife of Berlin's Lord Mayor [...] had received a luxury fur coat for less than a third of its actual worth. He was immediately accused of corruption and although he did everything in his power (from paying the real price to clearing up every detail of the affair) he still had to resign from office.'

With the municipal elections in Berlin only one month ahead, the Nazis based their whole electoral campaign in 1929 on the "Sklarek Scandal."This approach never changed, and even served as a justification for the Nazis' anti-Jewish policy after 1933 : "It must be demonstrated that the cunning of those Galician traffickers embroiled unprincipled Marxist leaders in scandals.""
Painting themselves as the only alternative to the "Barmat block" did not fail: The NSDAP won 5.8 per cent of the vote and for the first time, a Nazi-faction entered the Stadtverordnetenversammlung [Berlin's municipal parliament].
from: National Economies. Volks-Wirtschaft, Racism and Economy in Europe between the Wars (1918-1939/45)

Even ten years later the Sklarek Scandal was widely used for propaganda purposes in the occupied Poland.

But it is true that the German Jews were pro-German, some even pro-Nazi - as some accounts from the Łódź Ghetto show.

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by Futurist » 02 Sep 2016 14:22

wm wrote:
Futurist wrote:Meanwhile, in regards to the question of whether or not a philo-Semitic Hitler would have still been able to gain power in Germany in the early 1930s, I see *absolutely no* reason as to why exactly he would have been unable to do this. After all, as far as I know, most of the people who voted for Hitler (and for the Nazi Party) in the early 1930s didn't vote for him due to his anti-Semitism, but rather due to their belief that he can improve and fix the German economy.
Not quite:
the "Sklarek Scandal" bolstered prejudice in many ways: The Sklareks were Jews, Leo and Willy Sklarek had been members of the Social-Democratic Party (SPD) since 1928, Max Sklarek was a member of the Deutsche Demokratische Panel, (German Democratic Party/DDP), the K.V.G. had donated clothing to the Rote Hilfe ['Red Aid', a political aid agency affiliated with the Communist Party], the brothers had donated funds to the DNVP and were also friends with the German-nationalist publisher and professional anti-Semite Wilhelm Bruhn (indisputably the most unexpected surprise that came to light)."

The Sklareks had bribed Nationalist as well as Communist city Councillors, donated money to the SPD and DDP, had expensive clothes manufactured and sent to influential friends for ridiculously low prices or "forgotten" about the bill completely.
Even the wife of Berlin's Lord Mayor [...] had received a luxury fur coat for less than a third of its actual worth. He was immediately accused of corruption and although he did everything in his power (from paying the real price to clearing up every detail of the affair) he still had to resign from office.'

With the municipal elections in Berlin only one month ahead, the Nazis based their whole electoral campaign in 1929 on the "Sklarek Scandal."This approach never changed, and even served as a justification for the Nazis' anti-Jewish policy after 1933 : "It must be demonstrated that the cunning of those Galician traffickers embroiled unprincipled Marxist leaders in scandals.""
Painting themselves as the only alternative to the "Barmat block" did not fail: The NSDAP won 5.8 per cent of the vote and for the first time, a Nazi-faction entered the Stadtverordnetenversammlung [Berlin's municipal parliament].
from: National Economies. Volks-Wirtschaft, Racism and Economy in Europe between the Wars (1918-1939/45)

Even ten years later the Sklarek Scandal was widely used for propaganda purposes in the occupied Poland.

But it is true that the German Jews were pro-German, some even pro-Nazi - as some accounts from the Łódź Ghetto show.
One can condemn the bad behavior of certain Jews without expressing hate towards all Jews, though.

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by wm » 12 Sep 2016 23:02

It's possible but pointless, every politician readily condemns criminals.
But for example this could have "explained" lots of things for those doubting the reasons and sanity of waging so many wars simultaneously by Mr Hitler (from a 1943 anti-Jewish traveling exhibition in Poland):

The Jewish rulers of the Soviet Union:
zaraza1.jpg
the Jewish rulers of Britain:
zaraza2.jpg
the Jewish rulers of the world (the rulers of the world are exclusively Jews - Henry Ford):
zaraza3.jpg
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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by Von Schadewald » 18 Sep 2016 22:26

There have been few Judophilic leaders in history eg Cyrus, Antoninus, the Khazar king. Hitler is considered to be a descendant of the arch Biblical Judophobe Amalek, the grandson of Jacob's identical twin brother Esau: "Esau had the potential to be 1000 times greater than Jacob". With the Jews behind him, a pro-Jewish Hitler would reconcile the ancient animosity between Edom and Israel, & hasten the Messianic advent.

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by wm » 20 Sep 2016 15:12

In Germany the Jews enjoyed full emancipation, and as their population was relatively small they weren't in conflict with other social groups, so Hitler couldn't offer them something they already had.

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by BDV » 22 Sep 2016 02:54

Adolf can champion the banner of Zionismus.

Especially for Eastern European Jewry.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by wm » 22 Sep 2016 09:54

Yesterday a dirty Eastern Jew...
The Eastern ghettos are a constant source of new strength for the world Jewry.
wschodnie getta.jpg
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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by BDV » 22 Sep 2016 11:05

So the opposite tack would have been used, like Himmler clumsily and belatedly tried to put it in his Posen speech:

"We are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude to animals, will also adopt a decent attitude to these human animals, ...
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by Futurist » 12 Aug 2018 23:33

wm wrote:
12 Sep 2016 23:02
It's possible but pointless, every politician readily condemns criminals.
But for example this could have "explained" lots of things for those doubting the reasons and sanity of waging so many wars simultaneously by Mr Hitler (from a 1943 anti-Jewish traveling exhibition in Poland):

The Jewish rulers of the Soviet Union:
zaraza1.jpg
the Jewish rulers of Britain:
zaraza2.jpg
the Jewish rulers of the world (the rulers of the world are exclusively Jews - Henry Ford):
zaraza3.jpg
Sure, the Nazis made a big, prominent theory out of the idea of a Jewish world conspiracy. Still, my point here still stands. For instance, Blacks are extremely overrepresented in crimes (including violent crimes) in the U.S., but you don't see U.S. politicians--even conservative ones--condemning all Black people and labeling all Black people as criminals.

There's no reason that a Judeophilic Hitler couldn't have tried the same approach. He could condemn the behavior of bad Jews--sort of how some conservatives in the U.S. complain about the high crime, welfare dependency, and alleged anti-intellectualism of some Blacks in the U.S.--while still making it clear that he does not hate all Jews and that instead he wants to Germanize the "good Jews."
Last edited by Futurist on 12 Aug 2018 23:35, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by Futurist » 12 Aug 2018 23:34

BDV wrote:
22 Sep 2016 11:05
So the opposite tack would have been used, like Himmler clumsily and belatedly tried to put it in his Posen speech:

"We are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude to animals, will also adopt a decent attitude to these human animals, ...
Yeah, except the Nazis won't consider the Jews to be "human animals" in this scenario but rather will consider them a people which is worthy of Germanization.

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by Futurist » 12 Aug 2018 23:36

wm wrote:
22 Sep 2016 09:54
Yesterday a dirty Eastern Jew...
The Eastern ghettos are a constant source of new strength for the world Jewry.
wschodnie getta.jpg
How exactly are they a source of strength for "world Jewry"?

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by wm » 13 Aug 2018 10:11

Eastern ghettos were dirty and "medieval", frequently ruled by orthodox or ultra-orthodox folks, but still full of young, resourceful, streetwise, and literate people. Such people transplanted to the "land of opportunity" easily became successful.
Hollywood actually was created by such "transplants" from Polish ghettos.
Another land (mostly conquered eventually) of opportunity was the ossified Vienna. And we know who painted there.

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by maltesefalcon » 13 Aug 2018 17:50

Well it would certainly free up some resources used for extermination, even when they were desperately needed elsewhere. There would of course be some lost labour as a result as well.

But more importantly the Nazi economy relied heavily on the loot they stole from Jewish citzens of the Reich and the Occupied Territories. That may have been a more critical change in the OTL.

That being said, its likely that political undesirables, homosexuals, communists and trade union leaders would still be for the chop so the camps would still exist.

So history would still regard him as a monster, just like Stalin.

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Re: A Judeophilic (philo-Semitic) Adolf Hitler

Post by wm » 13 Aug 2018 21:38

A Judeophilic Adolf Hitler would have access to Jews' wealth and resources too, as he had access to Germans' wealth and resources.
In Nazi Germany "all the wheels must have rolled for the victory", it wasn't like someone could refuse to roll.

The resources used for the Holocaust were negligible, they couldn't change anything.

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