German Rope-A-Dope of Sovjet Union in 1940

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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: German Rope-A-Dope of Sovjet Union in 1940

#16

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 23 Jun 2017, 23:00

Maybe I read this too fast, but the item I've not seen addresses is how to keep the Red Army unalerted & confined to the camps and barracks. OTL in June 1940 the army commanders were ordered specifically not to alert their commands and send them to battle positions. The German attack caught them undeployed, without ammunition reserves distributed, peacetime communications, ect.. ect.. Is this attitude supposed to occur exactly the same way in `1940 when the Red Army is executing war operations against Rumania, and as the Wehrmacht is rushing east?

There also the matter of the German air force having lost 25%+ of its strength in the just ended campaign.

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BDV
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Re: German Rope-A-Dope of Sovjet Union in 1940

#17

Post by BDV » 31 Oct 2017, 14:42

Richard Anderson wrote: As best I can make out, the defenses of Bessarabia were Third Rumanian Army with III Corps (12th and 15th ID) and IV Corps (7th, 8th, and 14th ID and 2d CavD). Thrid Army's X Corps and VIII Corps were in Bukovina, probably with six infantry divisions and a mountain brigade, while two cavalry divisions and seven infantry divisions were in reserve west of the Prut and Siret. As far as I can tell the few available Rumanian tanks were in reserve.
The "few" available Rumanian tanks are exactly what Rumania had on hand when it attacked in 1941, and they would have been extremely competitive with the Sovjet attacker's T26 and BT5.

The Soviets were well prepared for the operation...the Rumanians not so much. The Soviets crossed the Dniester on 28 June and the Prut on 30 June. The 12th Army opposed the Romanian forces in Bukovina, while the 5th and 9th conducted the occupation of Bessarabia. Roughly 20 infantry divisions, 4 cavalry divisions, and the nascent mechanized corps and a number of additional tank brigades with about 2,000 tanks, so about four-to-one or worse, with the Rumanians in an untenable position and no time to redeploy (they abandoned around 53,000-66,000 rifles, 1,350 machine guns, 100 mortars, 201 field guns and howitzers, and 109,000 rounds of artillery ammunition in their flight, while 15th ID disintegrated and about 62,500 troops deserted).
Those were the weapons stores Romanian Army COULDN'T pull out with four days notice. Ergo, they were not prepared for withdrawal. So what were they prepared for? Fighting! obviously - like the entire nation which had been fed a constant stream of jingoist propaganda for the previous two decades- until lily-livered Metropolitans demurred. Which means, with even German wink-wink "neutrality" things would have been decidedly different. But historically Germans were urging appeasement. Four months later Adolf came around, but it was manifestly too late.

As for "deserters" they were local conscripts and commissioned ranks who chose to stay with their homestead (I should know, my Grandfather was a warrant officer, but in Transylvania, not Moldova).


P.S.
Carl Schwamberger wrote:There also the matter of the German air force having lost 25%+ of its strength in the just ended campaign.
That didn't stop 'em from staging the infamous "H.G. Meyer's Fire and Water Airshow" in the skies of SE England in August and September of 1940.
Nobody expects the Fallschirm! Our chief weapon is surprise; surprise and fear; fear and surprise. Our 2 weapons are fear and surprise; and ruthless efficiency. Our *3* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency; and almost fanatical devotion


Carl Schwamberger
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Re: German Rope-A-Dope of Sovjet Union in 1940

#18

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 02 Nov 2017, 21:38

True, but it meant they had less combat effect.

OldBill
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Re: German Rope-A-Dope of Sovjet Union in 1940

#19

Post by OldBill » 04 Nov 2017, 22:08

BDV, could you post a link to that previous thread, or PM it to me? I've nothing substantive to add to this conversation but you've piqued my interest.
Thanks, Bill

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Re: German Rope-A-Dope of Sovjet Union in 1940

#20

Post by jesk » 05 Nov 2017, 20:38

The German strategy was aimed at reducing the mobility of its own parts. The Red Army is large in numbers, but it was not possible at every point of the front to have the superiority or the number of forces equal to the Germans. The main thing in war is the freedom of maneuver as much as possible. It was in this vein that Hitler fought the Wehrmacht.

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