Me 109 retired in 1941?

[Meeko987]

Should the Me 109 of ceased production in 1941-42? And so only focus on FW 190 production?

Could you say it was outdated in 1941?

[stg 44]

Should the Me 109 of ceased production in 1941-42? And so only focus on FW 190 production?

Could you say it was outdated in 1941?

No, it was not outdated. The latest models in 1944-45 (K-series) were still able to keep up, but that was their final moment for viability. In 1941 they had just hit their stride with the F-series.

[maltesefalcon]

Bear in mind Germany thought they would win the war by end of 1942. So they dragged their feet on new weapons programs and production efficencies. When circumstances proved otherwise they soldiered on with PzIII, Kar98 and Bf 109/110 because they had to.

If they retooled their existing plants to build FW 190, they would lose that production time when it was most needed. Also Hitler needed to keep each of his manufacturing mavens happy. Willy Messerschmidt would have been cooperative but unhappy to build a competitor's aircraft.

[T. A. Gardner]

The 109 should have been phased out in favor of the He 100D. The later had about 20% less components, had room for a much heavier armament, was faster, had longer range, and better cockpit visibility. It also has a wide track undercarriage that was superior to the 109's, particularly on rougher fields.

The 109 could have been phased out by 1943. That way you still have a fighter using the DB 601 series engine and not put a huge strain on BMW to produce more 801's the FW 190 used.

[stg 44]

The 109 could have been phased out by 1943. That way you still have a fighter using the DB 601 series engine and not put a huge strain on BMW to produce more 801's the FW 190 used.

By 1943 phasing out the Me109 was not possible. The Germans had an even better option with the Fiat G.55, but simply couldn't give up the Me109 due to how cheap and easy it was to make due to a deeply grooved production path right at the moment fighter losses were dramatically climbing and the culmination point of the air war was being reached. It's like trying to jump off a horse on to a rock mid-stream. Past 1940 it isn't possible to change such and important aircraft out for a totally different fighter design.

[T. A. Gardner]

By 1943 phasing out the Me109 was not possible. The Germans had an even better option with the Fiat G.55, but simply couldn't give up the Me109 due to how cheap and easy it was to make due to a deeply grooved production path right at the moment fighter losses were dramatically climbing and the culmination point of the air war was being reached. It's like trying to jump off a horse on to a rock mid-stream. Past 1940 it isn't possible to change such and important aircraft out for a totally different fighter design.

The He 100D was production ready in early 1940. Henkel had already had the pre-production batch of 12 He 100D-0 in production. An additional 3 were made for Japan and delivered in May 1940. Russia got 3 He 100D-1 about the same time. So, the plane was on the verge of being tooled up for mass production. Henschel could have been the designated manufacturer with Henkel turning over the tooling, and Henschel making more. By mid 1940 the He 100D-1 could have been in squadron service with the D-0 batch already in use in combat for trials and operational experience.
By the end of 1940 it could have been in pretty widespread use with 109 production beginning to wind down and Messerschmitt entering He 100 production too.

What kept that from happening was a combination of politics (Henkel was unpopular with the Nazi regime) and myopia (the RLM thought Henkel should concentrate on bomber production, Henschel was an upstart who produced locomotives and could be ignored as a serious aircraft manufacturer, and Messerschmitt would produce a replacement for the 109).

[stg 44]

By 1943 phasing out the Me109 was not possible. The Germans had an even better option with the Fiat G.55, but simply couldn't give up the Me109 due to how cheap and easy it was to make due to a deeply grooved production path right at the moment fighter losses were dramatically climbing and the culmination point of the air war was being reached. It's like trying to jump off a horse on to a rock mid-stream. Past 1940 it isn't possible to change such and important aircraft out for a totally different fighter design.

The He 100D was production ready in early 1940. Henkel had already had the pre-production batch of 12 He 100D-0 in production. An additional 3 were made for Japan and delivered in May 1940. Russia got 3 He 100D-1 about the same time. So, the plane was on the verge of being tooled up for mass production. Henschel could have been the designated manufacturer with Henkel turning over the tooling, and Henschel making more. By mid 1940 the He 100D-1 could have been in squadron service with the D-0 batch already in use in combat for trials and operational experience.
By the end of 1940 it could have been in pretty widespread use with 109 production beginning to wind down and Messerschmitt entering He 100 production too.

What kept that from happening was a combination of politics (Henkel was unpopular with the Nazi regime) and myopia (the RLM thought Henkel should concentrate on bomber production, Henschel was an upstart who produced locomotives and could be ignored as a serious aircraft manufacturer, and Messerschmitt would produce a replacement for the 109).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_100#He_100_D-1

The final evolution of the short He 100 history is the D-1 model. As the name suggests, the design was supposed to be very similar to the pre-production D-0s, the main planned change being to enlarge the horizontal stabilizer.

But the big change was the eventual abandonment of the surface cooling system, which proved to be too complex and failure-prone. Instead an even larger version of the retractable radiator was installed, and this appeared to completely cure the problems. The radiator was inserted in a "plug" below the cockpit, and as a result the wings were widened slightly.

While the aircraft didn't match its design goal of 700 km/h (430 mph) once it was loaded down with weapons, the larger canopy and the radiator, it was still capable of speeds in the 644 km/h (400 mph) range. A low drag airframe is good for both speed and range, and as a result the He 100 had a combat range between 900 to 1,000 km (560 to 620 mi) compared to the Bf 109's 600 km (370 mi). While not in the same league as the later escort fighters, this was at the time a superb range, which suggests that a production Heinkel 100 might have offset the need for the Bf 110 to some degree.

By this point, the war was under way, and as the Luftwaffe would not purchase the aircraft in its current form, the production line was shut down.

Me109 production paths were already grooved during a shooting war where there already wasn't enough ME109s to go around and in 1940 hundreds were lost, so many that totals on hand fell off rather sharply during the BoB. Heinkel was already contracted to make the He111 and 177. The F-series Me109 that was set to enter production in 1941 already had 1000km thanks to aerodynamic refinements and a greatly increased speed advantage The marginal advantages then of the HE100D didn't make up for the loss of production and the high cost in materials and manhours to make it, with Messerschmitt probably being put out of business if they cut the Me109.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messersch ... 9#Bf_109_F
BTW the speed and range of the F-Bf109 was as good as the He-100D.
https://translate.google.com/translate? ... t=&act=url
This doesn't exactly sound like the He100D lived up to it's claimed performance without evaporative cooling

[Sheldrake]

Should the Me 109 of ceased production in 1941-42? And so only focus on FW 190 production?

Could you say it was outdated in 1941?

No. The Fw190 started production in 1941. As with any new equipment had teething problems.

The Fw190 performance fell away over 23 k ft. The Me109 was much better above this altitude, and would remain superior until the Ta152 and Me262.

Ceasing production of the Me109 would not necessarily result in a lot more Fw190s, at least not without an almighty hiccup in single seat fighter production in the middle of a war. A large slice of the German aircraft industry was geared up to turning out the Me190 and the engines that powered it. These could not just turn out Fw190s at the flick of a switch.

[T. A. Gardner]

It's clear from all the literature on the He 100D that the plane was significantly faster than an Me 109E, the then current model, still faster than the Me 109F, and had significantly greater range. This last would have been invaluable in Russia, North Africa, and even in the BoB. Against the Me 109F you get 400+ mph versus 375 to 390, making the He 100 still faster, 560 to 620 miles versus 500 to 530 for the F, and the He 100 would have still had considerable development potential whereas the Me 109 was reaching the climax of its with the F series.
Another advantage accrued was the He 100 had the potential to carry a much heavier armament. While the D model had just one MGFF 20mm cannon firing through the prop shaft, and two 7.9mm in the wing roots, the C variant had been fitted with three MGFF in these positions and an additional four 7.9mm machineguns in the fuselage behind the engine. So, there's no reason to not believe in service the armament couldn't have evolved to one nearly as heavy, or as heavy, as the FW 190 carried. That would have made it a much better bomber buster than the 109 ever was.

As I pointed out, for who would make it, use Henschel who was badly underutilized as an aircraft manufacturer, and expand to Messerschmitt and let them make it as the 109 is phased out of production. It also wasn't going to cost more or be more difficult to build than the 109 was. Henkel had made very serious efforts to keep the design, by the D version, as simple and cheap to build as possible.

The only viable reason the He 100 wasn't produced was the lack of capacity to build the DB 601 engine. This amounts to simple myopia on the part of the RLM.

[stg 44]

It's clear from all the literature on the He 100D that the plane was significantly faster than an Me 109E, the then current model, still faster than the Me 109F, and had significantly greater range. This last would have been invaluable in Russia, North Africa, and even in the BoB. Against the Me 109F you get 400+ mph versus 375 to 390, making the He 100 still faster, 560 to 620 miles versus 500 to 530 for the F, and the He 100 would have still had considerable development potential whereas the Me 109 was reaching the climax of its with the F series.
Another advantage accrued was the He 100 had the potential to carry a much heavier armament. While the D model had just one MGFF 20mm cannon firing through the prop shaft, and two 7.9mm in the wing roots, the C variant had been fitted with three MGFF in these positions and an additional four 7.9mm machineguns in the fuselage behind the engine. So, there's no reason to not believe in service the armament couldn't have evolved to one nearly as heavy, or as heavy, as the FW 190 carried. That would have made it a much better bomber buster than the 109 ever was.

As I pointed out, for who would make it, use Henschel who was badly underutilized as an aircraft manufacturer, and expand to Messerschmitt and let them make it as the 109 is phased out of production. It also wasn't going to cost more or be more difficult to build than the 109 was. Henkel had made very serious efforts to keep the design, by the D version, as simple and cheap to build as possible.

The only viable reason the He 100 wasn't produced was the lack of capacity to build the DB 601 engine. This amounts to simple myopia on the part of the RLM.

What literature?