What if: Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance in 1939

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today. Hosted by Terry Duncan.
User avatar
Takao
Member
Posts: 3603
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 19:27
Location: Reading, Pa

Re: What if: Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance in 1939

Post by Takao » 01 Jun 2022 11:41

ljadw wrote:
01 Jun 2022 11:12
No : I did not admit that Hitler gave the Soviets territories : Hitler did not give Eastern Poland to the Soviets :he did not own Eastern Poland .
And you can not give what you don't own .
Sure you did...
ljadw wrote:
31 May 2022 20:40
The Soviets did not made the pact : they cosigned the pact because otherwise Hitler would have occupied Eastern Poland with its millions of Ukrainians and with the OUN .
The Soviets did not make the pact, the just signed it...If the Soviets did not make the pact, then Germany did. Germany wrote it up & the Soviets just signed it.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 13122
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: What if: Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance in 1939

Post by ljadw » 01 Jun 2022 15:38

NO : that the Soviets did not made the pact does not mean that the Germans made it and does also not mean that Hitler could give the Soviets territories he did not own : he did not own Lithuania nor Eastern Poland, thus he could not give them to the Soviets .

User avatar
Takao
Member
Posts: 3603
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 19:27
Location: Reading, Pa

Re: What if: Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance in 1939

Post by Takao » 01 Jun 2022 16:03

Nonsense.

If the Soviets did not make the Pact.

And the Germans did not make the Pact.

Then Who did?

Must have been Santa Claus, he is always giving things away.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 13122
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: What if: Anglo-Franco-Soviet Alliance in 1939

Post by ljadw » 01 Jun 2022 18:48

No one made the Pact : a Pact is not made .
Before WW 1 Central and Eastern Poland and Lithuania were parts of the Russian Empire .
If Stalin did nothing,Hitler would occupy and Central Poland and Eastern Poland,the last was a casus belli for Stalin . Thus he had to do something .
Without Hitler's invasion on 1 September, Stalin would have done nothing . He did nothing after 1920,although he could have conquered Eastern Poland easily .
It was Hitler who changed the status quo, not Stalin .
The big question which you and most historians avoid to answer (although the answer is obvious ) is why Stalin permitted Hitler to occupy Central Poland that before WW 1 was a part of the Russian Empire .
The reason why historians avoid this question is that they belong to a generation for whom everything is colored as bad or good and who prefer moralizing to accepting realpolitik .Kissinger is an exception, but he is culturally an European .

Return to “What if”