Plausibility Check: A new German capital in Czechia?

[Futurist]

Basically, there are two ways for this scenario to work:

The first scenario involves Germany allying with Russia and partitioning Austria-Hungary together with Russia, Serbia, Romania, and perhaps Italy in an alternate World War I. After the German-Russian alliance wins this alternate World War I, Germany annexes German Austria, Czechia, Pressburg/Bratislava, the Burgenland, and perhaps Slovenia as well. Afterwards, in order to Germanize Czechia, Germany decides to relocate its capital to somewhere in Czechia. This is also a vanity project for the German Kaiser.

The second scenario involves Hitler dying in mid-1939 and having his successor Goering cancel the planned German invasion of Poland. In this scenario, Germany already has Czechia--which it then proceeds to outright annex. Afterwards, in order to Germanize Czechia, Germany decides to relocate its capital to somewhere in Czechia. This is also a vanity project for Hermann Goering.

Anyway, how plausible is this and which city in Czechia would make the best capital for a Greater Germany?

Any thoughts on this?

[maltesefalcon]

At the time of the Great War, Germany was still a new nation. It was really just Greater Prussia, with the smaller states dominated by the Kaiser in Berlin. Even Bavaria was loosely held at the time. They still had their own Monarchy and their own army.
Moving the capital to Prague would dilute that authority, not augment it, especially since royal authority traditionally came from the familial estates.
In Hitlers case, if he built a new capital, it would likely be in Austria, since he was born there. Perhaps Linz or Vienna?

There is a real world example that also may help. Bonn was made the capital of West Germany out of necessity. But once Berlin was no longer under Soviet domination, it was restored as the nations traditional seat of government.

[Futurist]

At the time of the Great War, Germany was still a new nation. It was really just Greater Prussia, with the smaller states dominated by the Kaiser in Berlin. Even Bavaria was loosely held at the time. They still had their own Monarchy and their own army.
Moving the capital to Prague would dilute that authority, not augment it, especially since royal authority traditionally came from the familial estates.

That's a fair point. Nevertheless, I wonder if moving the German capital to Prague would have had an important symbolic message telling people in other German states that they are equal citizens of Germany.

In Hitlers case, if he built a new capital, it would likely be in Austria, since he was born there. Perhaps Linz or Vienna?

Yes, but Hitler dies in 1939 in this TL.

There is a real world example that also may help. Bonn was made the capital of West Germany out of necessity. But once Berlin was no longer under Soviet domination, it was restored as the nations traditional seat of government.

Based on what I've read about Bonn on Wikipedia, it looks like it was clear that Bonn was always only meant to be a temporary capital. Thus, we can't simply look at Bonn's relatively small population and say that Prague likewise wouldn't have experienced massive population growth had it become the German capital.

[Futurist]

Also, for what it's worth, it looks like Prague was the capital of the Holy Roman Empire in Renaissance times:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... enaissance

Thus, there is some precedent for this idea.

[maltesefalcon]

Also, for what it's worth, it looks like Prague was the capital of the Holy Roman Empire in Renaissance times:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... enaissance

Thus, there is some precedent for this idea.

That is true, but there is a good reason. Each Holy Roman Emperor was chosen by the Electors and the individual chosen may come from various principalities or kingdoms. The nominal capital would nearly always be the Emperor's seat of power in his home nation. If a Bohemian King is chosen, then it makes perfect sense that Prague would be the natural city for the capital at the time.

Aix(Aachen) and Vienna were also capitals. The argument would be more convincing if Austria, Hungary, Prussia, Hannover or any of the other elector states had move their capital city to Prague.

[Sheldrake]

These are both daft scenarios assuming that some real historic figures cared enough about the idea of moving the capital from Berlin.

Reality check.Neither the kaiser nor Goering was obsessed with town planning. Hitler was -and chose to remodel Berlin, even though as an Austrian with personal connections to Bavaria he could have considered moving the capital historic to say, Nuremberg, the centre for Nazi commemorations.

Sure, some developing countries setup a new capital city somewhere new. But once a city is the capital there are huge problems with relocation. Moving the capital means uprooting and relocating politicians, the civil service and military high commands and the headquarters of businesses that find it convenient to be in the capital. The transport and communications infrastructure is set up to serve the capital. Look at the rail net and airports serving London Berlin and Paris. At a trivial level this asks the most important people in the country to find new homes in some hitherto provincial place where there won't be enough smart houses to go around.

The most likely scenario in which Prague became the capital of Germany is if the winter king Frederick V of Bohemia had turned out the be a military genius comparable to Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden and followed up the decisive victory of the White Mountain 1620 with the unification of Germany under a Protestant king Emperor 250 years ahead of schedule.

[MarkN]

These are both daft scenarios ...

Daft? Utter nonsense...

This section of the forum is getting more ridiculous by the day.

.. how plausible is this and which city in Czechia would make the best capital for a Greater Germany?

How plausible?

What is it you are asking is plausible: that the Kaiser or Goering would consider such a barking idea or that the Czech would be even the slightest bit persuaded to Germanize themselves?

I wonder if moving the German capital to Prague would have had an important symbolic message telling people in other German states that they are equal citizens of Germany.

Or are you wondering about the plausibility of Hungarians, Romanians, Ukrainians, Russians and god knows who else would be persuaded to Germanize themselves because the capital of their oppressor has moved to Prague?

If the Russians move their capital from Moscow to Los Angeles, would you feel like Russianizing yourself? Would you feel the "important symbolic message" that they're sending?

Perhaps Goering could have moved it to Jerusalem and had a love-in group hug with the jews!!!!

[histan]

Why would the King of Prussia wish to move the capitol of his Empire from Berlin?

In fact, Berlin seems well placed to be the capitol of this expanded Empire.

[Map from Wikimedia Commons]

Regards

John

[Futurist]

Also, for what it's worth, it looks like Prague was the capital of the Holy Roman Empire in Renaissance times:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... enaissance

Thus, there is some precedent for this idea.

That is true, but there is a good reason. Each Holy Roman Emperor was chosen by the Electors and the individual chosen may come from various principalities or kingdoms. The nominal capital would nearly always be the Emperor's seat of power in his home nation. If a Bohemian King is chosen, then it makes perfect sense that Prague would be the natural city for the capital at the time.

Aix(Aachen) and Vienna were also capitals. The argument would be more convincing if Austria, Hungary, Prussia, Hannover or any of the other elector states had move their capital city to Prague.

Thanks for this information!

Anyway, an alternate history scenario where Austria does move its capital to Prague does not appear to be too far-fetched, correct?

[Futurist]

These are both daft scenarios assuming that some real historic figures cared enough about the idea of moving the capital from Berlin.

Reality check.Neither the kaiser nor Goering was obsessed with town planning. Hitler was -and chose to remodel Berlin, even though as an Austrian with personal connections to Bavaria he could have considered moving the capital historic to say, Nuremberg, the centre for Nazi commemorations.

Didn't Hitler also flirt with moving the German capital elsewhere since Berlin's mushy swampland might not have been able to sustain large, tall buildings?

Sure, some developing countries setup a new capital city somewhere new. But once a city is the capital there are huge problems with relocation. Moving the capital means uprooting and relocating politicians, the civil service and military high commands and the headquarters of businesses that find it convenient to be in the capital. The transport and communications infrastructure is set up to serve the capital. Look at the rail net and airports serving London Berlin and Paris. At a trivial level this asks the most important people in the country to find new homes in some hitherto provincial place where there won't be enough smart houses to go around.

Oh, sure, a lot of people could be pissed off if the capital is moved. However, in dictatorships, the leader's (in this case, Fuhrer's) will is paramount, no?

The most likely scenario in which Prague became the capital of Germany is if the winter king Frederick V of Bohemia had turned out the be a military genius comparable to Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden and followed up the decisive victory of the White Mountain 1620 with the unification of Germany under a Protestant king Emperor 250 years ahead of schedule.

That's a very interesting scenario but with a PoD way too far back to my liking.

[Futurist]

These are both daft scenarios ...

Daft? Utter nonsense...

This section of the forum is getting more ridiculous by the day.

.. how plausible is this and which city in Czechia would make the best capital for a Greater Germany?

How plausible?

What is it you are asking is plausible: that the Kaiser or Goering would consider such a barking idea or that the Czech would be even the slightest bit persuaded to Germanize themselves?

I wonder if moving the German capital to Prague would have had an important symbolic message telling people in other German states that they are equal citizens of Germany.

Or are you wondering about the plausibility of Hungarians, Romanians, Ukrainians, Russians and god knows who else would be persuaded to Germanize themselves because the capital of their oppressor has moved to Prague?

I wasn't thinking of having the Czechs Germanize themselves. Rather, I was thinking of having Germans outside of Prussia feel more connected to Germany if the German capital was moved out of Prussia (something which would symbolize a reduction in the Prussian domination of Germany).

Also, in this scenario, there is no World War II and thus Germany certainly isn't going to expand into Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, and god knows where else!

If the Russians move their capital from Moscow to Los Angeles, would you feel like Russianizing yourself? Would you feel the "important symbolic message" that they're sending?

No, I certainly wouldn't.

However, if the U.S. capital was located in California and I lived outside of California, then I might feel slightly more connected to the U.S. if the U.S. capital would have been moved to a different location in order to reduce California's dominance in the Union.

Of course, please keep in mind that Prussia's level of dominance in Germany was much more than California's level of dominance in the U.S. After all, California only contains something like 13% of the total U.S. population while Prussia contained over 50% of Germany's total population.

Perhaps Goering could have moved it to Jerusalem and had a love-in group hug with the jews!!!!

And maybe he could have wore a giant banana costume and danced to the tune of the "peanut butter jelly" song! :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_joQ9mStYU

[MarkN]

in this scenario, there is no World War II and thus Germany certainly isn't going to expand into Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, and god knows where else!

.. how plausible is this and which city in Czechia would make the best capital for a Greater Germany?

If there has been no WW2, Prague is not under German or Prussian governance. Which sane state moves their capital to a foreign land?

Plausibility Check: Utter nonsense proposition.

That's a very interesting scenario but with a PoD way too far back to my liking.

And yet at least the capital would be in the right country!!!

Perhaps you should be wearing the giant banana costume. It would certainly not be out of place with your ramblings here.

[Futurist]

in this scenario, there is no World War II and thus Germany certainly isn't going to expand into Hungary, Romania, Ukraine, Russia, and god knows where else!

.. how plausible is this and which city in Czechia would make the best capital for a Greater Germany?

If there has been no WW2, Prague is not under German or Prussian governance. Which sane state moves their capital to a foreign land?

Plausibility Check: Utter nonsense proposition.

You are aware that Nazi Germany acquired Prague in March 1939 and that World War II only began in September 1939--six months later--correct?

[MarkN]

You are aware that Nazi Germany acquired Prague in March 1939 and that World War II only began in September 1939--six months later--correct?

You are aware that you started this thread pondering the idea "to Germanize Czechia" which you then changed to mean Germanize those already considering themselves Germans. Which seems utterly daft. But more importantly means you have shifted you original point - so what else has shifted?
You are aware that just because Nazi Germany walked into Prague in March 1939 and claimed it for themselves, doesn't mean it becomes theirs. Your use of the word "aquired" is quite unhelpful if not outright misleading. Prague was not "aquired" it was illegally occupied - and temporarily so. Who in their right mind moves their capital to a city which the rest of the word considers to be illegally occupied territory? In you fantasy timeline are we to assume that the World just accepts whatever Nazi Germany does and lets them get on with it?

[Futurist]

You are aware that Nazi Germany acquired Prague in March 1939 and that World War II only began in September 1939--six months later--correct?

You are aware that you started this thread pondering the idea "to Germanize Czechia" which you then changed to mean Germanize those already considering themselves Germans. Which seems utterly daft. But more importantly means you have shifted you original point - so what else has shifted?

By "Germanize Czechia," I meant having ethnic Germans settle in Czechia after the German capital was moved there.

Similarly, Russia Russified what is now northern Kazakhstan by having a lot of ethnic Russians move there.

You are aware that just because Nazi Germany walked into Prague in March 1939 and claimed it for themselves, doesn't mean it becomes theirs. Your use of the word "aquired" is quite unhelpful if not outright misleading. Prague was not "aquired" it was illegally occupied - and temporarily so. Who in their right mind moves their capital to a city which the rest of the word considers to be illegally occupied territory? In you fantasy timeline are we to assume that the World just accepts whatever Nazi Germany does and lets them get on with it?

Was Prague considered to be illegally occupied, though? After all, I don't seem to recall sanctions being put on Nazi Germany for occupying Prague.