Nazis vs. ISIS

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Sgtkelso
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Nazis vs. ISIS

#1

Post by Sgtkelso » 19 Jun 2018, 18:01

Lets say that 1940s Nazi Germany wanted to invade the Islamic Caliphate. Isis would have present day technology vs the Nazis from 1942 onwards.

Who would win?

Advantages/Disadvantages the Germans have?

Advantages/Disadvantages ISIS?

Sole confrontation aswell, all other countries are neutral.

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Robert Rojas
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RE: National Socialist Germany Versus The Islamic State.

#2

Post by Robert Rojas » 19 Jun 2018, 19:35

Greetings to both Sergeant Kelso and the community as a whole. Howdy S.K.! Well sir, in light of your introductory posting of Tuesday - June 19, 2018 - 8:01am, old yours truly is not terribly optimistic over the short term survival of your selected topic of "interest". It might not have been a bad idea if you had previously floated this avantgarde scenario of yours with the HOST of the WHAT IF section of the forum BEFORE your fateful decision to cross the Rubicon. The climb to your figurative crucifixion has only begun. Well, this is my FIRST and LAST commentary on this topic of interest. In any case, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in your corner of the British Isles. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN - not to mention everybody else.

Best Regards From The Upstart Colonies!
Uncle Bob :idea: 8O :roll:
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee


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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#3

Post by T. A. Gardner » 19 Jun 2018, 23:35

The Wehrmacht / SS would trounce ISIS. It wouldn't even be a contest.

ISIS has no access to making their own munitions except for the crudest homemade ones. Their weapons arsenal is almost entirely small arms and light heavy weapons that are portable on a small vehicle. Their artillery is almost entirely mortars and rockets without any sort of fire control system beyond the crudest methods. They have a small number of armored vehicles most of which have limited ammunition, are in poor mechanical condition, and crewed by idiots.

Their chain of command is fragmented to a large degree and they have no ability to respond quickly to changing situations beyond small tactical units acting on their own. Throw in the Arab penchant to not fight in well organized units, and they are mostly a very serious annoyance.

The Germans would have air power (the Luftwaffe). Okay, so some planes get shot down. The Germans would live with that. They'd carpet bomb targets, use Stukas to dive bomb anything remotely resembling a target and be perfectly willing to flatten whole towns and cities into rubble indiscriminately.
They have artillery and would do the same with that. Shell targets for hours on end if they wanted.

Their idea of urban warfare (mostly what they would be facing) would be to send in masses of assault troops with high explosives, backed by machineguns, mortars, and flamethrowers and take places one building at a time. There'd be little concern for civilians even if they weren't targeting them specifically. The SS would gladly start shooting the civilians the moment the ISIS guys tried hiding among them. Human shields wouldn't work with the Nazis. They shoot them down as readily as the guys using them.

What ISIS has in the way of heavier weapons could expect counterbattery fire, and their armor would be destroyed in short order. It doesn't matter they have a T-62 or 72 tank that the German antitank guns can't penetrate. The Germans would resort to shooting the tracks off then using hollow charges or explosives on the vehicle, assuming the crew stays with it, just as they did against KV tanks in the opening stages of Barbarossa.

So, ISIS gets its collective @$$ handed to it by the Wehrmacht. Hell, the Japanese with their WW 2 equipment would crush ISIS.

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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#4

Post by Sgtkelso » 20 Jun 2018, 02:19

Hi!

That's fair enough then haha, wouldn't a Tiger/King Tiger be able to destroy a T-62/T-72?

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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#5

Post by maltesefalcon » 21 Jun 2018, 12:13

I'm quivering in anticipation to what the next premise will be. For example Nazis vs. predator is only slightly less absurd.

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#6

Post by T. A. Gardner » 21 Jun 2018, 19:30

Well, it can't be Nazis versus Cannibals... They did that one on Archer Danger Island... :lol:

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Harro
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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#7

Post by Harro » 21 Jun 2018, 20:27

Something along the lines of what if Rudel single handedly took on ISIS - there's always someone who's eager to know such things :lol:

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Sheldrake
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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#8

Post by Sheldrake » 21 Jun 2018, 20:40

There is little that ISIS have done that was not tried by the European Resistance, SOE,OSS or the different flavours of Partisans in the east and Balkans. Desperate non state individuals will do desperate things.

The Germans regarded partisans, and for that matter commandos, with the same distaste that we accord AQ or ISIS.

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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#9

Post by maltesefalcon » 22 Jun 2018, 00:42

I would have been less critical in my previous remarks, if the OP did not refer to an organization that did not even exist in the 1940's. Not only that the convoluted set of circumstances that resulted in its formation had not occurred, as the persons responsible had not even been born yet. It would be like asking "What if Spain attacked the USA in 1357?"

DerGiLLster
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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#10

Post by DerGiLLster » 28 Jun 2018, 00:02

T. A. Gardner wrote:The Wehrmacht / SS would trounce ISIS. It wouldn't even be a contest.

ISIS has no access to making their own munitions except for the crudest homemade ones. Their weapons arsenal is almost entirely small arms and light heavy weapons that are portable on a small vehicle. Their artillery is almost entirely mortars and rockets without any sort of fire control system beyond the crudest methods. They have a small number of armored vehicles most of which have limited ammunition, are in poor mechanical condition, and crewed by idiots.

Their chain of command is fragmented to a large degree and they have no ability to respond quickly to changing situations beyond small tactical units acting on their own. Throw in the Arab penchant to not fight in well organized units, and they are mostly a very serious annoyance.

The Germans would have air power (the Luftwaffe). Okay, so some planes get shot down. The Germans would live with that. They'd carpet bomb targets, use Stukas to dive bomb anything remotely resembling a target and be perfectly willing to flatten whole towns and cities into rubble indiscriminately.
They have artillery and would do the same with that. Shell targets for hours on end if they wanted.

Their idea of urban warfare (mostly what they would be facing) would be to send in masses of assault troops with high explosives, backed by machineguns, mortars, and flamethrowers and take places one building at a time. There'd be little concern for civilians even if they weren't targeting them specifically. The SS would gladly start shooting the civilians the moment the ISIS guys tried hiding among them. Human shields wouldn't work with the Nazis. They shoot them down as readily as the guys using them.

What ISIS has in the way of heavier weapons could expect counterbattery fire, and their armor would be destroyed in short order. It doesn't matter they have a T-62 or 72 tank that the German antitank guns can't penetrate. The Germans would resort to shooting the tracks off then using hollow charges or explosives on the vehicle, assuming the crew stays with it, just as they did against KV tanks in the opening stages of Barbarossa.

So, ISIS gets its collective @$$ handed to it by the Wehrmacht. Hell, the Japanese with their WW 2 equipment would crush ISIS.
This in a nutshell. The brutality of the Nazis would have them win in mere months, considering they would kill everyone there until no one was left.

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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#11

Post by Cantankerous » 12 Jan 2024, 02:56

Sheldrake wrote:
21 Jun 2018, 20:40
There is little that ISIS have done that was not tried by the European Resistance, SOE,OSS or the different flavours of Partisans in the east and Balkans. Desperate non state individuals will do desperate things.

The Germans regarded partisans, and for that matter commandos, with the same distaste that we accord AQ or ISIS.
In the 1990s, early 2000s, and 2010s, the very Russia that fought a terrible war with Nazi Germany in 1941-1945 accorded utter distaste for Chechen terrorists, al Qaeda, and ISIS. If ISIS had come into existence in the 1940s and took over Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, then they might have launched expeditionary missions to the Balkans and used explosives and booby traps to take down occupying German forces in Crete, mainland Greece, Albania, and Yugoslavia.

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AnchorSteam
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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#12

Post by AnchorSteam » 12 Jan 2024, 08:11

DerGiLLster wrote:
28 Jun 2018, 00:02
T. A. Gardner wrote:The Wehrmacht / SS would trounce ISIS. It wouldn't even be a contest.
....
So, ISIS gets its collective @$$ handed to it by the Wehrmacht. Hell, the Japanese with their WW 2 equipment would crush ISIS.
This in a nutshell. The brutality of the Nazis would have them win in mere months, considering they would kill everyone there until no one was left.
Confirmed. ISIS only existed in a vacuum in the first place. They used thuggery and terror-tactics to bully the weak, and illicit oil money to fund their activities. Activities which included slavery. The Wehrmacht could have claimed the moral high-ground, and been more right then wrong in this case.

BTW; wasn't there a thread like, about a Division of the IJA taking on ISIS in a reverse of this scenario? One of Imperial Japan's oversized Divisions could, perhaps, have made hash out of those mad mercenaries.

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wm
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Re: Nazis vs. ISIS

#13

Post by wm » 12 Jan 2024, 15:52

As to the moral high ground, Nazi Germany (and Stalinist Russia with its Gulag) were slave empires too.
Millions of Eastern European forced laborers (men and women) worked in Nazi Germany during the war.
The over 1.6 million prisoners in concentration camps (~1,100 in total) were literally like the Roman slaves; they worked without pay, their lives were worthless, and they were abused and killed at will.

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