What if: Hitler wins the war due to slightly stronger Barbarossa forces

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today.
Hanny
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Posts: 785
Joined: 26 Oct 2008 20:40

What if: Hitler wins the war due to slightly stronger Barbarossa forces

Post by Hanny » 10 Jun 2019 17:24

TheMarcksPlan wrote:
10 Jun 2019 13:07

Are you saying that I'm saying no Ju 88's at all, or do you realize that I'm saying fewer Ju88's?
I realise you have no grasp of the facts, are you trying to be the new jesk, your doing a good job so far of :lol: that.

Im pointing out the technical report of the RLM in 38 called for 45700 aircraft to be produced by 1942, at a cost of 60 billion, included 54 Geschwader of Ju88 med bombers (7300), and 8 of JU 87 Dive bombers. This required 230k more workers, and investment of 2.2 billion in manufacturing capacity and foreign imports of 125 million and 327 million of new machine tooling. By June of 41 it called for delivery from production of 3400 JU88, and 870 JU 87. This plan was modified by later plans, ( not least because it was unattainable) the last pre war production plan 16, one of these changes was to not have 7000 med bomber JU 88 but instead have them as a DB calling for 7340 JU 88 D, to replace the ageing 87. By 31/8/39 it had delivered 28 JU 88 0 JU 87. By 30/6/40 1000 JU88 and 1200 JU 87.

LW Audit report 1942/1943, BArch R 8135/7560 page 76 gives unit price of JU88 at 200k. JU 87 came in cheaper and less man hours at 175k.

The max saving you can achieve, to invade France with, is to replace all with 87s, JU 88 1028*200=205600, 1028*175=179900, a total saving of 25,700,000 at a cost of not having assets with the range of the JU 88.

Well done sherlock you just saved enough to pay for 257 of your 19200 new tanks, now exactly where is the 1,894,300,000 for the rest coming from?.
TheMarcksPlan wrote:
10 Jun 2019 13:07
Gotta make choices; this is a bad one. Air power is the most expensive way of getting "oomph;" building SP artillery would have been much more cost-effective.
Air support made up for Germany not having enough art, its also the only way to get it to where the Pzr are operating in deep ops. SP Art for Pzrs dont exist in 1938. 36 SIG 33 were with 6 of PZR Div for France. They do so exist in HOI in 38, thats why your confused.
TheMarcksPlan wrote:
10 Jun 2019 13:07
It's so dumb that I just don't believe your assertion that this is the primary reason for building the Ju88. Sources? My sources are replete with talk of their strategic bombing role; getting the bombers close to England was a central aspect of pre-France planning.
Already told you who and when. Pre France planning, to obtain airfields, required getting airfields for the Fighters range of 400 miles, DB JU 87 with its short range, ME 110 with short range. Do 17 He 111 and JU 88 all are over 2k range, who is the dumb one now fuckwitz. You probably have confused reading of strategic bombing of assets by a tactical asset., that or the sauce is knorr. You do know google has no hits for JU 88 strategic bomber right?, becuse it never was one.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Hanny
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Posts: 785
Joined: 26 Oct 2008 20:40

Re: What if: Hitler wins the war due to slightly stronger Barbarossa forces

Post by Hanny » 11 Jun 2019 08:26

TheMarcksPlan wrote:
05 Jun 2019 07:43
Hitler and his inner circle also planned to address their coalition's economic imbalance by integrating hordes of "volunteer" labor from across Europe in newly-conquered and/or allied lands. To that end, Hitler appointed Fritz Sauckel as "Plenipoentiary for Labor" from early 1939, tasking him with recruiting labor from allies and planning to induct unskilled workers from Central Europe.
Because in HOI (https://store.steampowered.com/app/3943 ... f_Iron_IV/ ) appointing Sauckel to a cabinet position, gives you a bonus to non core German manpower, so when you annex Czechoslovakia peacefully, you want him in to max out the manpower gain. When you conquer/annex other nations he maxes out the manpower gain Germany gets from them.

In reality he was brought in 42 to organise ( see R Evans 3rd reich at war, hard line nazi who was not soft on sub human slavs even if they were vital to the war effort, he inherited 700k Polish pow working in agriculture, and left them there, 80k slovaks, 35k Hungarian and 270k Italian, all payed less for doing the same jobs, he brought into Armaments industry, with its deficit of over a million workers, half of the 1.2 million Western pows in the first 4 months of taking office, moving half to agriculture ) he also brought in concentration camp labour, and used soviet pows when they were still alive to be used in 42. By 42 he demanded and got France to send 150k civilian workers in exchange of release of 50k pows, he expanded this in 43 to relocate a third of all Frances Metalworkers to work in Germany, a scheme rolled out for Holland and Belgium, slovakia so that by end of 43 223k Belgians 274k Dutch 370k slovaks and 660k French workers/pows now worked in Germany. SU eventually provided 2.8 million by end of 44, by which time foreign labour made up a quarter of the labour in Germany.



Like all you posts, you want the effects of what you can enforce on the defeated nations to contribute to also work without them being defeated in war and have it 3 years earlier, just like your AFV building program is 3 years ahead of reality levels of production.
TheMarcksPlan wrote:
05 Jun 2019 07:43
To that end, Hitler appointed Fritz Sauckel as "Plenipoentiary for Labor" from early 1939, tasking him with recruiting labor from allies and planning to induct unskilled workers from Central Europe.
Why couldn't Germany have appointed a "Plenpotentiary for Labor" immediately after war began, with broad powers to induct foreign and domestic workers?
In 1939 Germany had 3.9 million under arms, there is no requirement for hordes of foreign workers, who not being required yet would have to be economically induced to come work in the Reich, but were being offered less to do the same job in Germany as Germans to provide fuller em-plyement, but by 42 8.6 million in service, so the manpower loss to industry had to be made good in 42 and the conquered where the only untapped resources left to exploit.

HOI is not reality, its a fun game.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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