Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

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Anthonycumia1776
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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by Anthonycumia1776 » 12 Nov 2019 05:13

maltesefalcon wrote:
11 Nov 2019 17:55
The US was caught with its pants down, both militarily and industrially in WW2; so (another?) isolationist in the White House would not greatly alter the probability of direct attacks on the USA, or its ability to fight back. However, the distances involved from both Japan and Germany would be the same; so geographic "armour" would exist for the foreseeable future.

Lindbergh opposed Lend-Lease, so the UK would likely be reliant more on its Dominions for supplies prior to Pearl Harbor. Whether Britain would survive is another story. The US would not likely provide supplies or convoy escorts, so the proxy war the US Navy engaged in the Atlantic in 1941 was just as unlikely. Since these convoys were the main origin of Hitler's scorn vs USA; it is also not likely Hitler would declare war on America on Dec 10, 1941.

Let's assume Pearl Harbor does occur as IRL. Once the USA had been dragged into war, Lindbergh would energetically organize his nation; but only vs Japan. He was a committed anti-Bolshevik and I don't think he would openly help the USSR. So In this case, I predict an Axis victory in Europe but still a defeat for Japan.
You are confusing non interventionism with pacifism, moreover if you are not poking other nations in the eyes and deliberately not scaling up your armed forces as to goat them into attacking you as FDR did, how can it NOT result in war?

Stop selling oil to Japan, sure, but do not freeze their accounts. More over no reason NOT to have the jewel of the pacific so vastly undefended expect if you wanted to bait an attack and get a nation into a war you wish to join but the people are justly opposed to as they gain NOTHING but injury and death.

I honestly think of Heiss landed in the right place and cut a deal with the English faction he was going to meet England could have been avoided and the USSR left to its fate.

Seeing the long term damage caused by the communists via the frankfurt school "refugees" who can blame Lindy for his stance?

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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by Anthonycumia1776 » 12 Nov 2019 05:14

OpanaPointer wrote:
11 Nov 2019 23:52
The GOP put up an interventionist candidate in 1940 in the real world. The boy from Elwood, Indiana, would go on to work for FDR after the war started, until his untimely death.
Yeah, nothing says conservative like working for the enemy and fighting every fight but those that matter.

Anthonycumia1776
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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by Anthonycumia1776 » 12 Nov 2019 05:16

HistoryGeek2019 wrote:
12 Nov 2019 01:27
If Lindbergh becomes president and pursues a policy of strict neutrality (no sanctions on Japan, no lend-lease or even weapons sales to Britain), then Britain and the Soviet Union are doomed. US lend-lease saved both the Soviet Union and the British. Germany conquers the Soviet Union up to at least the Volga, and Japan takes and holds the southeast Pacific. British forces in Egypt are left stranded, and eventually the Italians and Japanese link up in the Indian Ocean.

Britain can probably hold out against invasion for several years, but without US support they probably just ask Germany for peace in November 1940 after Lindbergh is elected.
Let it not be said that Hitler did offer peace after Dunkirk, yet it was not taken up..Why might that be?

Anthonycumia1776
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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by Anthonycumia1776 » 12 Nov 2019 05:20

HistoryGeek2019 wrote:
12 Nov 2019 04:58
Anthonycumia1776 wrote:
12 Nov 2019 03:57

Seeing the "wonderful" benefits of the end of the second world war (spread of communism, cultural marxist infection of the west, anytime European peoples dare advance our own interests being seen as the same so called "greatest threat" we wasted so much to defeat) its becoming clear that the second world war, just like the first was a totally avoidable, pointless, destructive war foisted on us by a handful of people hellbent to wreak the western world and amass control of it in a weakened state on the premise of arrested development.

World War I and II shattered the power of smug European elitists who thought they could go into other people's lands, colonize them, and exploit them for natural resources. I say good riddance.
Yeah, good riddance to western civilization slitting its throat, totally serves us right for doing the same thing everyone across time has done and other groups are still doing today, right?



Not sure why your hate yourself, your forebears, and the culture they worked so hard to create/defend but maybe you should rethink your positions. And if you still have such a smug sense of righteousness, just move out and never come back, everyone wins.

OpanaPointer
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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by OpanaPointer » 12 Nov 2019 05:21

Anthonycumia1776 wrote:
12 Nov 2019 05:14
OpanaPointer wrote:
11 Nov 2019 23:52
The GOP put up an interventionist candidate in 1940 in the real world. The boy from Elwood, Indiana, would go on to work for FDR after the war started, until his untimely death.
Yeah, nothing says conservative like working for the enemy and fighting every fight but those that matter.
Working for the enemy? Help me with that, please.
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Anthonycumia1776
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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by Anthonycumia1776 » 12 Nov 2019 05:25

OpanaPointer wrote:
12 Nov 2019 05:21
Anthonycumia1776 wrote:
12 Nov 2019 05:14
OpanaPointer wrote:
11 Nov 2019 23:52
The GOP put up an interventionist candidate in 1940 in the real world. The boy from Elwood, Indiana, would go on to work for FDR after the war started, until his untimely death.
Yeah, nothing says conservative like working for the enemy and fighting every fight but those that matter.
Working for the enemy? Help me with that, please.
I can not really support or believe that FDR was a good man nor supportive American when he started to wreak the freedoms that this nation is founded on to secure, with such actions like the "Fairness Doctrine", the "National Firearms Act of 1934", Confiscation of the Nation`s Gold supply, etc.

When you are achieving the same stated goals as the people we are war with, albeit under different motives but the have the same destructive outcome, you really can not claim to value the nation when you work against the people and their liberties.

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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by OpanaPointer » 12 Nov 2019 05:47

Ah, you're conservative.
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Sid Guttridge
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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by Sid Guttridge » 12 Nov 2019 12:18

Hi Opanapointer,

You made my point so much better than I could have.

Lindbergh wasn't even an outside contender for a nomination, let alone election.

"What ifs" are only really engaging if they are at least reasonably plausible. This one probably isn't.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by OpanaPointer » 12 Nov 2019 13:47

The "Nazi medal" thing put him out of the running if he had ever been in it at all. I've seen that medal, it's on display at the museum in Forest Park here in St. Louis. A lot of people know a whole lot of a little about it. The "presentation" consisted of Goring walking into a party, shoving the medal in Lindy's hands and walking out. The US State Department recommended he not make a fuss about it.
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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by sveahk » 12 Nov 2019 16:29

Have I missed something, but has no-one here read "The Plot against America" by Philip Roth...? In which the author gives us exactly what this thread is about - Lindbergh as President.

"The Plot Against America is a novel by Philip Roth published in 2004. It is an alternative history in which Franklin D. Roosevelt is defeated in the presidential election of 1940 by Charles Lindbergh. The novel follows the fortunes of the Roth family during the Lindbergh presidency, as antisemitism becomes more accepted in American life and Jewish-American families like the Roths are persecuted on various levels. The narrator and central character in the novel is the young Philip, and the care with which his confusion and terror are rendered makes the novel as much about the mysteries of growing up as about American politics. Roth based his novel on the isolationist ideas espoused by Lindbergh in real life as a spokesman for the America First Committee, and on his own experiences growing up in Newark, New Jersey. The novel depicts the Weequahic section of Newark which includes Weequahic High School from which Roth graduated."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plot_Against_America

A most readable book!

Hans K

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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by OpanaPointer » 12 Nov 2019 16:33

No more plausible than the OP.
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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by HistoryGeek2019 » 12 Nov 2019 17:55

OpanaPointer wrote:
12 Nov 2019 05:47
Ah, you're conservative.
I suspect he's a little more than just "conservative".

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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by Stiltzkin » 12 Nov 2019 18:12

World War I and II shattered the power of smug European elitists who thought they could go into other people's lands, colonize them, and exploit them for natural resources. I say good riddance.
Nah, now the honor of Neocolonialism is restored by China (especially in Africa), I guess Russia is still an exception, still stuck with a 19th century mentality. France still possesses oversea territories and protects its interests (e.g. uranium mines) in Africa as well.

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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by OpanaPointer » 12 Nov 2019 18:29

HistoryGeek2019 wrote:
12 Nov 2019 17:55
OpanaPointer wrote:
12 Nov 2019 05:47
Ah, you're conservative.
I suspect he's a little more than just "conservative".
I bust out in polite once in a while. 8-)
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Terry Duncan
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Re: Charles Lindbergh Wins Presidency in 1940

Post by Terry Duncan » 12 Nov 2019 19:20

Anthonycumia1776 wrote:
12 Nov 2019 05:16
HistoryGeek2019 wrote:
12 Nov 2019 01:27
If Lindbergh becomes president and pursues a policy of strict neutrality (no sanctions on Japan, no lend-lease or even weapons sales to Britain), then Britain and the Soviet Union are doomed. US lend-lease saved both the Soviet Union and the British. Germany conquers the Soviet Union up to at least the Volga, and Japan takes and holds the southeast Pacific. British forces in Egypt are left stranded, and eventually the Italians and Japanese link up in the Indian Ocean.

Britain can probably hold out against invasion for several years, but without US support they probably just ask Germany for peace in November 1940 after Lindbergh is elected.
Let it not be said that Hitler did offer peace after Dunkirk, yet it was not taken up..Why might that be?
Would you please elaborate on what you find in any way unusual or unfortunate about this state of affairs?

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