Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

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Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Futurist » 07 Jan 2020 00:31

What if Afghanistan would have entered WWI on the side of the Central Powers after the Neidermayer-Hentig Mission would have made it to Afghanistan? For the record, this probably requires Afghan Amir Habibullah to die or get assassinated at least several years earlier than in real life. I do know that there were prominent forces in Afghanistan's royal court who were advocating in favor of an Afghan enter into WWI on the CP side due to their dislike of Britain, though. Anyway, with Afghanistan entering the war, what subsequently happens to it, its neighborhood, and the rest of the world?

For the record, I don't think that a military pipsqueak such as Afghanistan would actually be able to cause significant trouble for the Entente. After all, even if Britain has a limited number of troops to spare, it could probably rely on some troops from its ally Japan in such a scenario. Japan didn't have any troops fighting in Europe during WWI to my knowledge, but Afghanistan is much closer to Japan and thus Japan might be more willing to send some of its own troops there--especially if this could make a crucial difference there. I'm presuming that the Entente's main way to attack Afghanistan would be through Britain due to the presumably underdeveloped Russian railroad system in Central Asia and especially on the Russo-Afghan border. I do wonder if the Entente are going to try supporting any separatist movements in Afghanistan in this scenario similar to how the British supported the Arabs' rebellion against the Ottoman Empire during WWI in real life. Of course, it's worth noting that considering that most of Afghanistan's minorities are located in its northern territories, the most realistic way to access these minorities would probably be through Russia:

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I suppose that another question would be whether Afghanistan is going to be able to last long enough in the war in order to get some additional territories from the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk or whether the Entente are going to be able to crush Afghanistan and force it to sue for peace before that point in time. I also wonder what exactly the post-WWI situation and settlement in Afghanistan and the rest of the region is going to be after the Entente presumably still win WWI on this scenario.

Anyway, any thoughts on all of this? History Learner? Anyone else?

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by History Learner » 07 Jan 2020 00:36

There was an aborted rebellion in 1915, which could've been mutually helpful with the Afghans entering the war. The Anglo-Russians could put it down, but it'd take serious resources at a time neither could afford it, while opening another can of worms via the competing interests of London and Moscow in the region.

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Futurist » 07 Jan 2020 00:48

History Learner wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:36
There was an aborted rebellion in 1915, which could've been mutually helpful with the Afghans entering the war. The Anglo-Russians could put it down, but it'd take serious resources at a time neither could afford it, while opening another can of worms via the competing interests of London and Moscow in the region.
What aborted rebellion are you talking about here? Also, do you think that the Entente can crush Afghanistan and force it to make peace before Russia gets taken over by the Bolsheviks and withdraws from WWI?

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by History Learner » 07 Jan 2020 00:52

Futurist wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:48
History Learner wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:36
There was an aborted rebellion in 1915, which could've been mutually helpful with the Afghans entering the war. The Anglo-Russians could put it down, but it'd take serious resources at a time neither could afford it, while opening another can of worms via the competing interests of London and Moscow in the region.
What aborted rebellion are you talking about here? Also, do you think that the Entente can crush Afghanistan and force it to make peace before Russia gets taken over by the Bolsheviks and withdraws from WWI?
In February of 1915, there was a near rebellion supported by the Germans and exiles in America; I know the U.S. impounded a ship that was supposed to carry arms IIRC. As for the Anglo-Russians, they can definitely put it down. The real question, however, is the effect this has on the wider war; the Great Encirclement in Poland is soon upon the Russians while the British damn near got a punch to the face in the form of the German attack(s) on Ypres almost concurrent to this.

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Sheldrake » 07 Jan 2020 11:45

History Learner wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:36
There was an aborted rebellion in 1915, which could've been mutually helpful with the Afghans entering the war. The Anglo-Russians could put it down, but it'd take serious resources at a time neither could afford it, while opening another can of worms via the competing interests of London and Moscow in the region.
The forces of the Emirate of Afghanistan did invade India, in May 1919. This occurred after the death of tan The actualm invasion of India.
The Third Anglo-Afghan War (Persian: جنگ سوم افغان-انگلیس‎), also known as the Third Afghan War, the British-Afghan war of 1919 and in Afghanistan as the War of Independence, began on 6 May 1919 when the Emirate of Afghanistan invaded British India and ended with an armistice on 8 August 1919. The war resulted in the Afghans winning back control of foreign affairs from Britain, and the British recognizing Afghanistan as an independent nation. According to British author Michael Barthorp, it was also a minor strategic victory for the British because the Durand Line was reaffirmed as the political boundary between Afghanistan and the British Raj, and the Afghans agreed not to foment trouble on the British side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Anglo-Afghan_War

The emir during the war was Habibullah, who played off Britain against Russia. Geography meant these would always be the major players unless both empires collapsed. The 1919 invasion looks like a diversion from internal divisions by Amanullah who emerged as Emir after Habibullah's assassination.

The British forces in India might have been weaker in numbers in 1915, but might have had more moral commitment, compared to 1919 when British and Indian troops were demob happy. An irritant at most with no impact on the result of WW1.

Fun fact: The British official who turned down Afghan's request to attend the Versailles peace conference, was Frederic Thiesiger, the son of the Lord Chelmsford of the Anglo-Zulu wars. . The Afghans weren't belligerents and therefore weren't invited.

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Futurist » 08 Jan 2020 23:19

@Sheldrake: Britain might also be able to count on the help of Japan in fighting the Afghans in 1915-1916. After all, Japan was a British ally during WWI and Japan is much closer to Afghanistan than it is to Europe.

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Futurist » 08 Jan 2020 23:21

History Learner wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:52
Futurist wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:48
History Learner wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:36
There was an aborted rebellion in 1915, which could've been mutually helpful with the Afghans entering the war. The Anglo-Russians could put it down, but it'd take serious resources at a time neither could afford it, while opening another can of worms via the competing interests of London and Moscow in the region.
What aborted rebellion are you talking about here? Also, do you think that the Entente can crush Afghanistan and force it to make peace before Russia gets taken over by the Bolsheviks and withdraws from WWI?
In February of 1915, there was a near rebellion supported by the Germans and exiles in America; I know the U.S. impounded a ship that was supposed to carry arms IIRC. As for the Anglo-Russians, they can definitely put it down. The real question, however, is the effect this has on the wider war; the Great Encirclement in Poland is soon upon the Russians while the British damn near got a punch to the face in the form of the German attack(s) on Ypres almost concurrent to this.
What's the name of this rebellion in Lahore? For some reason, our last couple of posts here were deleted. :(

As for the Great Encirclement, just what percentage of the Russian army was able to avoid encirclement in this? Also, what percentage of the Russian army was never actually at ask for encirclement?

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by History Learner » 09 Jan 2020 03:43

Futurist wrote:
08 Jan 2020 23:21
History Learner wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:52
Futurist wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:48
History Learner wrote:
07 Jan 2020 00:36
There was an aborted rebellion in 1915, which could've been mutually helpful with the Afghans entering the war. The Anglo-Russians could put it down, but it'd take serious resources at a time neither could afford it, while opening another can of worms via the competing interests of London and Moscow in the region.
What aborted rebellion are you talking about here? Also, do you think that the Entente can crush Afghanistan and force it to make peace before Russia gets taken over by the Bolsheviks and withdraws from WWI?
In February of 1915, there was a near rebellion supported by the Germans and exiles in America; I know the U.S. impounded a ship that was supposed to carry arms IIRC. As for the Anglo-Russians, they can definitely put it down. The real question, however, is the effect this has on the wider war; the Great Encirclement in Poland is soon upon the Russians while the British damn near got a punch to the face in the form of the German attack(s) on Ypres almost concurrent to this.
What's the name of this rebellion in Lahore? For some reason, our last couple of posts here were deleted. :(

As for the Great Encirclement, just what percentage of the Russian army was able to avoid encirclement in this? Also, what percentage of the Russian army was never actually at ask for encirclement?
Not sure if it had an official name, but it was supported by the Ghadar Movement and was to have the 23rd Cav rise in revolt in Lahore, with associated cells instigating actions in Calcutta, Benegal and the Punjab that I know of. It was supported by U.S. based exiles, and ships carrying arms (supported by Germany) were intercepted/detained.

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Futurist » 09 Jan 2020 04:30

Supported by US-based exiles of what ethnicity/origin?

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Sheldrake » 09 Jan 2020 10:08

More here on the 1915 mutinies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghadar_Mutiny

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Futurist » 12 Jan 2020 02:24

Very interesting; thanks!

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Futurist » 18 Aug 2020 19:32

Hey History Learner, I have a question for you--if Afghanistan enters the war on the CP side AND somehow Russia manages to remain in WWI until the very end in this scenario, could an independent Hazara state actually be created out of central Afghanistan at the end of World War I?

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by T. A. Gardner » 18 Aug 2020 20:36

Maybe next we could discuss Bolivia's impact entering the war on the side of the Central Powers... It'd have about the same effect.

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by paulrward » 19 Aug 2020 03:15

Hello All :
Maybe next we could discuss Bolivia........


" .....the next time I say, ' Let's go some place like Bolivia ', LET'S GO some place like Bolivia....."

R. L Parker



Respectfully :

Paul R. Ward
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Voices banned, are voices who cannot share information....

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Re: Afghanistan enters WWI on the Central Powers side

Post by Futurist » 19 Aug 2020 07:00

T. A. Gardner wrote:
18 Aug 2020 20:36
Maybe next we could discuss Bolivia's impact entering the war on the side of the Central Powers... It'd have about the same effect.
I'm not so much interested in its effect as much as what would have happened to Afghanistan afterwards in a political sense.

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