If... That's a mighty big if. To keep the "Med Front quiet" would require Italy remain out of the war. That is something Germany has little influence over. Franco and Spain weren't about to enter the war. Spain was destroyed in their civil war, and Franco killed off upwards of another 250,000 after it ended to crush the opposition. The economy was in ruins. Franco was no idiot. He stayed out of the war because he knew it was a losing proposition for Spain to get into it.paulrward wrote: ↑11 Jun 2020 02:49To Mr. Gardner :
You make many interesting points, let me try to address them:
As for Vichy France, if the Germans defeat the USSR with Japanese help ( They don't need the
help of the Italians, but having them keep the Med Front quiet is useful enough to pay them some
sort of premium ) then Britain will be left alone. Probably Spain will enter the war on the side
of the Axis, and Hitler, with no interference from a much weakened Britain, can simply instruct
the Puppet Government in Vichy to work out the Administrative changes to transfer Libya and
Tunisia to France. No big deal. To the winners go the spoils....
You were talking the Germans moving against the Vichy far earlier than after a defeat of the Soviet Union.If the Vichy Armistace collapses, well, Russia has been defeated, a few divisions to occupy the
rest of Vichy, and ALL of France is occupied...
As for the Singapore Conference, this was a conference of Military Types to arrange for the
coordination of defenses if they were all mutually at war. It has NOTHING to do with anything
that the Congress wants. It is much like the Iceland Conference with Churchill. A lot of talk,
and no real commitments in terms of Congressional actions.
First, you give an argument ad populum. By your reasoning, I it could be argued that the US after Pearl Harbor would not go to war with Japan. That is clearly an absurd proposition.As for the United States going to war:
Germany occupied Austria and Czechoslovakia. The United States did NOT go to war
Italy occupied Ethiopia The United States did NOT go to war
Germany and Italy Intervene in Spain The United States did NOT go to war
Germany invaded Poland The United States did NOT go to war
Germany invaded Denmark and Norway The United States did NOT go to war
Germany invaded Belgium, Holland, and France The United States did NOT go to war
Germany sank an American Destroyer in the Atlantic The United States did NOT go to war
Germany Attacks the USSR. The United States did NOT go to war
Japan attacked the Soviet Union ( Nomonhan ) The United States did NOT go to war
Japan invaded China ( Rape of Nanking ) The United States did NOT go to war
Japan sank an American Warship ( Panay ) The United States did NOT go to war
Japan invaded French IndoChina The United States did NOT go to war
Now, Mr. Gardner you would have us believe that, after this long record of over five years of non
intervention in foreign affairs, that when the Japanese, with the agreement and aquiescence of
the Dutch Government in the Hague, moves in to occupy the NEI, that the United States will
figuratively leap to it's feet, point it's finger at the ceiling, and shout, " THIS MEANS WAR !!!! "
The NSB government in the Hague has no control over the DEI, the Dutch government in exile does. What happens when the Dutch exile government decides to fight and declares war on Japan rather than allow an occupation? The Dutch in the DEI will fight and now Japan is at war with the Dutch.
It isn't much of a stretch that the British would declare war in support of such a move. That in turn is almost certain to bring the US into the war as well.
The British would not accept such a move as it threatens Australia and Malaysia. If the Dutch fight, and that is pretty much a certainty, then Britain will support them because they need the government in exile on their side in Europe and elsewhere.Now, the British would be upset. but as of the summer of 1941, they have not one single battleship
or carrier in the Pacific ( they are all hunting the Bismarck ! ) and what few forces they have
in Malaya will be barely enough to hold Singapore. ( Historically, they WEREN'T enough ! )
The US was selling / lending both massive amounts of war materials, The US had long frozen Japanese assets in the US and was cutting off all trade. I can see Queen Willena addressing Congress (she did in 1942) and getting the same standing ovation, followed by a declaration of war on Japan because of Japanese aggression in the DEI.The British and the Chinese, despite their best efforts, had been unable to get the United States into
the War. Is there any evidence anywhere that the Congress of the United States would have been
willing to declare war to save the NEI ? After the record I have delineated above, I think that the
evidence is in fact much against it.
Japan can't put a fig leaf on that and Germany cannot make the forces in the DEI lay down their arms and let the Japanese occupy the colony if the Queen has told her army to resist.
So? It shows that there was resistance to the Japanese occupation and it was ongoing.You mentioned Amir Sjarifuddin - The man was a Marxist before the war. He became a paid agent of
Dutch Intelligence, receiving money to set up an resistance movement, which was, in fact something
of a bad joke. His organization quickly broke down, leaving Mr. Sjarifuddin in prison for most of the war,
and he was in fact killed by his fellow Indonesians in the fighting against the Dutch Government forces in 1948.
With what? Their assets are frozen in the US.As for " How does Japan carry out a propaganda campaign in the U.S. ? The same way everyone else does:
You hire some newpaper and magazine editors and writers ( under the table payments, in cash ) and they
begin to get articles printed in the media favoring Japan's position. It's very simple, just ask the Chinese
how they do it nowadays.....
And Japan has neither the means, persons, or connections to do it in the US.Finally, Mr. Garder. the point I was making with my reference to a work of fiction was that the main
thrust of that work was that everyone has a price. Those who say that they cannot be bought have
simply not yet been offered a large enough bribe....
A Fortune magazine poll in June 1941 asked the question whether America was already in the war or not for all practical purposes. 79.5% said yes, 10.9 no, and 9.6 gave no opinion. By mid 1941, it is pretty clear the American public was already believing the nation was de facto at war.But, I am still interested, Mr. Gardner. In all my researches, I have yet to be able to find any significant
numbers of Pro-War Senators or Congressmen prior to Dec. 7, 1941. Have you, in your research, found
any such group ? If so, I would be very interested.
Paul R. Ward