WWII Conspricy Theories

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Carl Schwamberger
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WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 05 Sep 2020 22:41

How many are there? What comprises a CT? Describe your favorite WWII related conspiracy theory. What are the consequences if proofs emerge?

ie: Pearl Harbor. CT is Roosevelt set the Pacific Fleet up to be attacked, to bring the US into WWII. The Fleet & other military commands, scubas PI were not warned to ensure they could not dodge catastrophe. Or the appearance of innocent undefended stance.

The proof emerge circa 1965 with the appearance of memos, intel reports, meeting minutes in a shoe box. 2dLt Smithers was supposed to burn them but forgot his matches. He stashed the box in his desk, then forgot about it. After his retirement the new occupant Yeoman Jones cleans the desk out and passes the interesting looking papers on to his high school buddy who recently acquired tenure in the university history dept....

maltesefalcon
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by maltesefalcon » 06 Sep 2020 00:42

I think this thread might get locked, but here's one CT I actually contemplated writing a book about:

May 1941 mission of Hess was much better known and expected by British government than the official story.

Hess was to offer peace to UK in return for Royal Navy/RAF assistance in Barbarossa campaign. In return Germany would vacate a now-demilitarized western Europe.

UK agrees. But the fly in the ointment is Mussolini. He would not give up Italian-occupied areas of France, Albania and Greece. Also he wanted North Africa ceded to him except of course Spanish Morocco.

UK would not agree to his terms and the whole affair was buried to prevent Stalin from finding out. That's why Hess was kept in prison until his "suicide".

AFAIK the secret classification of files on this case were supposed to be time expired by now, but the true story remains unseen to this day.

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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by VanillaNuns » 06 Sep 2020 01:23

For me, that Himmler was fully aware of the details of Valkyrie in advance and would have used the chaos arising from the coup in the following days to seize power for himself from the new government. Assuming of course that Hitler had been killed and the plot had initially succeeded.

It doesn't sound so far fetched when you examine the scenario in detail, Himmler's duplicitous nature and his tentative attempts later at negotiating a peace settlement with the western Allies.

Crushing the coup d'état and avenging the Fuhrer's death would certainly have endeared him to the German people, and with 900,000 Waffen SS soldiers under his command it was certainly achievable.

How much did he know about the plot and when? I guess we'll never know...

Sid Guttridge
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Sep 2020 09:14

Hi Guys,

Did you know that the initials of Carl Schwamberger, "CS" are almost the same as those of the words "Conspiracy Theorist"? Coincidence?

Or that the initials of maltesefalcon, "MF" could also stand for "Manufactured Fable"? Or "Misrepresented Facts"? Or "Made-up Fiction"?

Or that the initials of vanillanuns, "VN", are the same as "Verity Nullified"? They are also the same as one of the rejected proposals for the Vatican's international vehicle registration letters. Hmmmm.. ..

Is the Vatican behind this thread? Half the letters of the contributors to the thread are in the Vatican City's actual
international vehicle registration letters - VCS!

Also there is the reference to Malta in "maltesefalcon". The Sovereign Order of the Knights of St. John (aka the Knights of Malta) are directly subordinate to the Pope!

And is that not also true of nuns, as in "vanillanuns"?

One of these might be passed off as coincidence, but surely not all?

I guess we'll never know, unless a Papal shoebox or like container turns up, or hidden Vatican files are released.

A paranoid Sid

P.S. Sorry Guys, it is early Sunday morning and I was a but bored.

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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by OpanaPointer » 06 Sep 2020 11:21

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
05 Sep 2020 22:41
ie: Pearl Harbor. CT is Roosevelt set the Pacific Fleet up to be attacked, to bring the US into WWII. The Fleet & other military commands, scubas PI were not warned to ensure they could not dodge catastrophe. Or the appearance of innocent undefended stance.
One of the weak ones. "Let's see, should I allow the attack and get thousands of people killed and look like a schmoe? Or should I ambush the Japs and look like a hero while still having an intact fleet? I'm sure one of the guys down at the VFW could tell me the best course to go."
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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 06 Sep 2020 13:03

Sid Guttridge wrote:
06 Sep 2020 09:14
Hi Guys,

Did you know that the initials of Carl Schwamberger, "CS" are almost the same as those of the words "Conspiracy Theorist"? Coincidence?
My middle initial is W. What can you make of that Sid?

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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 06 Sep 2020 13:07

maltesefalcon wrote:
06 Sep 2020 00:42
I think this thread might get locked, but here's one CT I actually contemplated writing a book about:

May 1941 mission of Hess was much better known and expected by British government than the official story.

Hess was to offer peace to UK in return for Royal Navy/RAF assistance in Barbarossa campaign. In return Germany would vacate a now-demilitarized western Europe.

...

AFAIK the secret classification of files on this case were supposed to be time expired by now, but the true story remains unseen to this day.
What do you think happens if documentation emerges circa 2005 confirming all this?

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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by maltesefalcon » 06 Sep 2020 13:30

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
06 Sep 2020 13:07
maltesefalcon wrote:
06 Sep 2020 00:42
I think this thread might get locked, but here's one CT I actually contemplated writing a book about:

May 1941 mission of Hess was much better known and expected by British government than the official story.

Hess was to offer peace to UK in return for Royal Navy/RAF assistance in Barbarossa campaign. In return Germany would vacate a now-demilitarized western Europe.

...

AFAIK the secret classification of files on this case were supposed to be time expired by now, but the true story remains unseen to this day.
What do you think happens if documentation emerges circa 2005 confirming all this?
Well for one thing I probably wouldn't be able to write a book on it. Nor my posts in this thread for that matter. Lol.

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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by OpanaPointer » 06 Sep 2020 13:34

The problem with conspiracy advocates is they're often not at all interested in the facts. They promote a theory because it makes a person or group look bad. Character assassination is the core of most such "theories". For example: On Sunday, Dec. 7th, 1941, Senator Gerald P. Nye was addressing a rally of America First. An aide slipped a note onto the podium, "Japanese attack Pearl Harbor". Nye was seen to read the note but it didn't affect his delivery of his anti-FDR diatribe. After he finished up he went back stage where he was given full details as known. His response was "He (FDR) must have tricked them!" It's not often that we can determine the exact moment a conspiracy theory is born.
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 06 Sep 2020 14:08

maltesefalcon wrote:
06 Sep 2020 13:30
Carl Schwamberger wrote:
06 Sep 2020 13:07
maltesefalcon wrote:
06 Sep 2020 00:42
I think this thread might get locked, but here's one CT I actually contemplated writing a book about:

May 1941 mission of Hess was much better known and expected by British government than the official story.

Hess was to offer peace to UK in return for Royal Navy/RAF assistance in Barbarossa campaign. In return Germany would vacate a now-demilitarized western Europe.

...

AFAIK the secret classification of files on this case were supposed to be time expired by now, but the true story remains unseen to this day.
What do you think happens if documentation emerges circa 2005 confirming all this?
Well for one thing I probably wouldn't be able to write a book on it. Nor my posts in this thread for that matter. Lol.
I'd think documentation would be a enabler for you ??

maltesefalcon
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by maltesefalcon » 06 Sep 2020 15:17

I was only joking but I think we are getting to close to the truth. Soon as we hit a nerve the thread will likely be locked.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Sep 2020 18:59

Hi CWS,

I think we can make something out of your "W".

I believe it betrays the identity of the Pope who instigated this Vatican project - John Paul II.

If I am not mistaken, he is the only Pope ever whose original surname - Wojtyla - began with "W"!

Another piece of the jigsaw falls into place!

Taken individually, none of these "coincidences" may appear remarkable, but combined they begin to paint an altogether different picture.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 07 Sep 2020 01:48

Ha! If you were close Sid, the men in black would have already paid you a visit. Not that anyone would know...

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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 07 Sep 2020 01:50

OpanaPointer wrote:
06 Sep 2020 11:21
Carl Schwamberger wrote:
05 Sep 2020 22:41
ie: Pearl Harbor. CT is Roosevelt set the Pacific Fleet up to be attacked, to bring the US into WWII. The Fleet & other military commands, scubas PI were not warned to ensure they could not dodge catastrophe. Or the appearance of innocent undefended stance.
One of the weak ones. "Let's see, should I allow the attack and get thousands of people killed and look like a schmoe? Or should I ambush the Japs and look like a hero while still having an intact fleet? I'm sure one of the guys down at the VFW could tell me the best course to go."
That was the original plan, but Short & Kimmel blew a easy one. Despite having a war warning in hand 27 Nov.

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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by OpanaPointer » 07 Sep 2020 13:07

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
07 Sep 2020 01:50
OpanaPointer wrote:
06 Sep 2020 11:21
Carl Schwamberger wrote:
05 Sep 2020 22:41
ie: Pearl Harbor. CT is Roosevelt set the Pacific Fleet up to be attacked, to bring the US into WWII. The Fleet & other military commands, scubas PI were not warned to ensure they could not dodge catastrophe. Or the appearance of innocent undefended stance.
One of the weak ones. "Let's see, should I allow the attack and get thousands of people killed and look like a schmoe? Or should I ambush the Japs and look like a hero while still having an intact fleet? I'm sure one of the guys down at the VFW could tell me the best course to go."
That was the original plan, but Short & Kimmel blew a easy one. Despite having a war warning in hand 27 Nov.
Severe mismanagement, yeah maybe. S&K were peacetime bosses in a undeclared war environment. The Dorn Report goes over that fully.
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