WWII Conspricy Theories

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today. Hosted by Terry Duncan.
Avalancheon
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Avalancheon » 30 Sep 2020 08:27

Sid Guttridge wrote:
29 Sep 2020 05:56
Hi Avalancheon,

The opposite of an "unproven conspiracy theory" is not a proven conspiracy theory. The opposite of an unproven conspiracy theory is a hard historical fact.

Indeed, the word "unproven" is entirely redundant. "Conspiracy theories" are by definition "unproven" because they lack the necessary hard historical evidence.

All your supposedly "proven conspiracy theories" were never conspiracy theories in the first place. They may have been conspiracies, but they were things that actually happened for which there is ample historical evidence. There is nothing theoretical about them.
The essence of the matter is this. Whenever an event happens, people will try to explain how it happened. In certain cases, they will make a theory that it was the result of a conspiracy. Thus we have the conjunction of two words, 'conspiracy theory.'

Some will back up their theory with hard evidence, while others will not. The strength or weakness of the theory does not change its conspiratorial element, despite what you claim. Even when conspiracy theorys are accepted by historians as a self-evident fact, that doesn't change the conspiratorial nature of the theory.
Sid Guttridge wrote:
29 Sep 2020 05:56
You are pretending that "unproven conspiracy theories" are in History's "pending tray". They are not. They are in history's trash bin.

Cheers,

Sid.
You might think that, but you would be wrong. After WW2, people made up all kinds of conspiracy theorys about the German enigma codes being broken by the Allies. The existence of the ULTRA program wasn't declassified until the 1970s. Only then was the conspiracy theory accepted as a fact by historians. This process goes on all the time. People made conspiracy theorys that the Soviets were responsible for the Katyn massacre, but this wasn't declassified until decades later!

Sid Guttridge
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Sid Guttridge » 30 Sep 2020 10:04

Hi Avalancheon,

You say, "After WW2, people made up all kinds of conspiracy theorys about the German enigma codes being broken by the Allies."

1) Did they? What is the evidence?

2) There appears to be no conspiracy here in the first place. Just a well kept secret.

Cheers,

Sid.

OpanaPointer
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by OpanaPointer » 30 Sep 2020 12:34

Come visit our sites:
hyperwarHyperwar
World War II Resources

Bellum se ipsum alet, mostly Doritos.

Rob Stuart
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Rob Stuart » 30 Sep 2020 16:36

After WW2, people made up all kinds of conspiracy theorys about the German enigma codes being broken by the Allies. The existence of the ULTRA program wasn't declassified until the 1970s. Only then was the conspiracy theory accepted as a fact by historians.
This wasn't a conspiracy theory. It was just an ordinary theory.

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 30 Sep 2020 17:47

There was the idea the Isei and nisei Japanse immigrants and descendants were involved in a large scale spy and sabotage network, a potential Fifth Column. This was used to justify the relocation of this population in 1942.

I'm curious about the reaction & fallout were proof discovered post war that there was infact a large agent network ready to act?

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EKB
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Re: WWII Conspiracy Theories

Post by EKB » 24 Oct 2020 02:50

As long as people keep buying the legend of Operation Long Jump, the publishers will keep selling new versions.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Night-Assassin ... op?ie=UTF8
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Operation-Long ... 757&sr=8-1

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by T. A. Gardner » 24 Oct 2020 03:51

There's the Ju 390 that flew within a few miles of New York story...

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: WWII Conspricy Theories

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 24 Oct 2020 16:20

T. A. Gardner wrote:
24 Oct 2020 03:51
There's the Ju 390 that flew within a few miles of New York story...
I'd give that one more credit if the Italians were the accused. That aside the effect of proof would be a massive surge on other 'The Germans Did That' stories.

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