What if Germany won at Kursk?

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today. Hosted by Terry Duncan.
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Post by Doppleganger » 17 Jun 2005 12:48

Krakov wrote:
Doppleganger wrote:
Krakov wrote:
Kurt_Steiner wrote:
Krakov wrote: No, it was even clear to Hitler, that total victory wasn't achievable.
Add to that the Allied landing in Italy, which obliged Germany to send troops there. So, Zitadelle came too late, IMHO.
Worst yet, Hitlers generals (besides Manstein) wanted to wait until '44 to attack...
And people say Germany would of won the war if he had listened to his generals :roll: :lol:
I think it's better to say that Germany would have done much better had Hitler listened to those advisors who had primarily Germany's best interests, and not their own self interests, at heart. I mean, Hitler listened to and followed the Manstein Plan rather than Fall Gelb when attacking France. That was a good example of Hitler listening to opposing arguments from his Generals and choosing the correct plan. IMO, and the opinion of many others, was that Hitler listened to the wrong Generals when he gave the go-ahead for Zitadelle. Zitadelle, if it had been launched on 4th May had a reasonable chance of succeeding, but that does not mean to say it was the correct plan.
The majority prefered to give another whack at the Schliffen plan, instead of going through the Ardennes and the majority prefered Zitadelle over Backhand. Surely you don't believe they didn't care about Germany? They just didn't know any better. The opposition was always composed of an invidual or two- against everyone else. From what I've heard Hitler actively took part in the planning of Zitadelle, Manstein's Backhand and his following plans would all be against his big strategy.
Right, because a great deal of the German General Staff were still thinking in WW1 terms and were generally quite conservative. Even someone as able as Gerd von Runstedt took a long time to fully realise the benefits of fully autonomous panzer formations. There was a great deal of opposition to Guderian's theories until they were finally proven in battle. Even then, his superiors could sometimes not fully grasp the tactical situation when it come to the utilization of panzer spearheads.

When I say serving their own self interests I'm talking about those Generals who were afraid to voice their true opinions in front of Hitler, in case they were dismissed and/or lost all their nice entitlements of rank. That's serving your own self interests ahead of what you might think is best for your country.

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Re: What if Germany won at Kursk?

Post by trevorpsy » 07 Oct 2023 06:25

I don't have anything like the expertise exhibited by the other contributors to the this thread; however, I do have a thought:

In the the final analysis, Germany could not have prevailed, because dwindling oil reserves.

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Re: What if Germany won at Kursk?

Post by Terry Duncan » 07 Oct 2023 21:54


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