Germany wins World War I, imposes an even more severe Brest-Litovsk-style Treaty on Russia, & builds a railway to China?

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Germany wins World War I, imposes an even more severe Brest-Litovsk-style Treaty on Russia, & builds a railway to China?

Post by Futurist » 23 Dec 2020 06:30

In an old article about WWI, David Frum wrote this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... cy/394616/
By the summer of 1917, the Western Allies had exhausted their credit in U.S. financial markets. Without direct U.S. government-to-government aid, they could not have afforded any more offensives in the West. The exhausted Allies would have had to negotiate some kind of settlement with Central Power forces occupying almost all of what is now Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltic republics in the east; most of Romania and Yugoslavia in Southern Europe, as well as a bit of Italy; and almost all of Belgium and most of northeast France. Even if the Germans had traded concessions in the West to preserve their gains in the East, the kaiser’s Germany would have emerged from such an outcome as the dominant power on the continent of Europe. The United States would have found itself after such a negotiated peace confronting the same outcome as it faced in 1946: a Europe divided between East and West, with the battered West looking to the United States for protection. As in 1946, the East would have been dominated by an authoritarian regime that looked upon the liberal and democratic Anglo-American West not just as a geopolitical antagonist, but as an ideological threat.

But unlike in 1946, when the line was drawn on the Elbe and the West included the wealthiest and most developed regions of Europe, this imaginary 1919 line would have been drawn on the Rhine, if not the Scheldt and the Meuse, with the greatest concentration of European industry on the Eastern side. Unlike in 1946, the newly dominant power in Eastern Europe would not have been Europe’s most backward major nation (Russia), but its most scientifically and technologically advanced nation (Germany). In other words, the United States would have gotten an early start on the Cold War, and maybe a second hot war, supported by fewer and weaker allies against a richer and more dangerous opponent—and one quite likely to have developed the atomic bomb and the intercontinental ballistic missile first.
So, Yeah, let's say that the Anglo-French are unable to get unsecured loans from the US, are thus incapable of sustaining their war effort to the same level as before, and thus negotiate a status quo ante bellum peace with Germany in the West in exchange for a German free hand in the East. Also, let's say that afterwards Germany decides to overthrow the Bolsheviks in Russia and, to reward itself for its efforts, decides to also conquer a land bridge from Ukraine to Central Asia (independent Don Cossack as well as Kalmyk states can be created there, I suppose--perhaps with some German princelings as their new rulers)--as well as conquering Central Asia itself. Afterwards, let's say that Germany decides to build a railroad from Germany to China exclusively through the territory of Germany and German satellite states. Is such a project actually feasible, and what happens afterwards? For instance, could such a railroad subsequently be extended from Central Asia to Xinjiang all of the way to China's east coast--at least once the situation in China will stabilize--thus significantly helping China develop and making China a German ally?

Any thoughts on this?

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Re: Germany wins World War I, imposes an even more severe Brest-Litovsk-style Treaty on Russia, & builds a railway to Ch

Post by Futurist » 23 Dec 2020 06:35

Basically, this idea came to me when I noticed that while Germany's Brest-Litovsk sphere of influence extended very far, it could have theoretically been extended even farther by also stripping Russia of territories such as Kalmykia and Central Asia. This would have, of course, given Germany a contiguous string of German satellite states who would have established a land connection from Germany to China--quite impressive, if you ask me!

@History Learner: Any thoughts on my question and scenario here?

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Re: Germany wins World War I, imposes an even more severe Brest-Litovsk-style Treaty on Russia, & builds a railway to Ch

Post by T. A. Gardner » 23 Dec 2020 06:47

There was already a railway built in whole or part to do this in part to service Port Arthur in part because the Russians, then Japanese, saw value in it from as early as 1895.

The Trans-Caspian railway was started in 1879 and was all the way into Tashkent by 1906.

So, most of what's proposed here already existed prior to WW 1. Of course, this speaks nothing of the quality of those lines, just that they existed.

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Re: Germany wins World War I, imposes an even more severe Brest-Litovsk-style Treaty on Russia, & builds a railway to Ch

Post by Futurist » 23 Dec 2020 07:00

T. A. Gardner wrote:
23 Dec 2020 06:47
There was already a railway built in whole or part to do this in part to service Port Arthur in part because the Russians, then Japanese, saw value in it from as early as 1895.

The Trans-Caspian railway was started in 1879 and was all the way into Tashkent by 1906.

So, most of what's proposed here already existed prior to WW 1. Of course, this speaks nothing of the quality of those lines, just that they existed.
It only goes from the Caspian Sea to Samarkand, though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Cas ... enbahn.png

Image

In contrast, I want something stretching from Germany all of the way up to China's Pacific coastline.

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Re: Germany wins World War I, imposes an even more severe Brest-Litovsk-style Treaty on Russia, & builds a railway to Ch

Post by T. A. Gardner » 23 Dec 2020 16:52

Image

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Re: Germany wins World War I, imposes an even more severe Brest-Litovsk-style Treaty on Russia, & builds a railway to Ch

Post by Futurist » 23 Dec 2020 20:52

Yes, there's the Trans-Siberian Railroad, but no railroads that go through Xinjiang and into Central Asia.

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Re: Germany wins World War I, imposes an even more severe Brest-Litovsk-style Treaty on Russia, & builds a railway to Ch

Post by Futurist » 12 Nov 2021 01:44

I want to return to this thread:

I was wondering: Might it not be more prudent for a victorious Germany to have a somewhat less severe peace settlement for Russia (Daugava-Dnieper Line, for instance) while aiming to build its railroad to China through both Persia and Afghanistan after the Berlin-Baghdad Railway is completed, whenever that might be in this scenario? So, the route would be from Berlin to Baghdad, then through Persia, and then through Afghanistan and its Wakhan Corridor until one will actually reach China's Xinjiang, after which point this railroad will cross through Xinjiang and then reach central and eastern China through the route of the historical Silk Road. Sounds like a great strategy, no?

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